The pan had stripped oil drain threads-so pulled it for repair and while there checked bearings and didn't like how some of the rod bearings looked/plastigauged-mains were fine. They and the car were 30 years old at that point, so changing them didn't bother me except that it wasn't much fun from underneath. The MG was much easier with unibody and nothing in the way of the pan drop-rear main was going so changed that. The oil pump pickup is the main problem that you will likely encounter in getting the pan out of there. I'd pull the engine=much easier in the end-but good luck.
engine bearings: al_si vs tri metal vs coated
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Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Lapham3
Yes, you can usually do some crank/bearing work in the car, but difficult and with an F-body probably worse. I've done it in my old Buick Riviera nailhead
Its going to be a bit of a pain. I have to lift the front of the engine for the pan to clear the cross member. I have to remove the fan, motor mount bolts, loosen trans mount then probably jack on the balancer.
I figure I put around 2000 miles a year so id be able to postpone the rebuild for several years. What prompted you to replace the Buicks bearings and how long did the new ones last. Did you replace both main and rod bearings?
If you have to go through all that, why not just pull it? It's not that much more work.
Originally Posted By: Lapham3
Yes, you can usually do some crank/bearing work in the car, but difficult and with an F-body probably worse. I've done it in my old Buick Riviera nailhead
Its going to be a bit of a pain. I have to lift the front of the engine for the pan to clear the cross member. I have to remove the fan, motor mount bolts, loosen trans mount then probably jack on the balancer.
I figure I put around 2000 miles a year so id be able to postpone the rebuild for several years. What prompted you to replace the Buicks bearings and how long did the new ones last. Did you replace both main and rod bearings?
If you have to go through all that, why not just pull it? It's not that much more work.
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Lapham3
Yes, you can usually do some crank/bearing work in the car, but difficult and with an F-body probably worse. I've done it in my old Buick Riviera nailhead
Its going to be a bit of a pain. I have to lift the front of the engine for the pan to clear the cross member. I have to remove the fan, motor mount bolts, loosen trans mount then probably jack on the balancer.
I figure I put around 2000 miles a year so id be able to postpone the rebuild for several years. What prompted you to replace the Buicks bearings and how long did the new ones last. Did you replace both main and rod bearings?
If you have to go through all that, why not just pull it? It's not that much more work.
I'll think about it. But if I pull it out, I might as well install the stroker kit while its out. And bore, deck the block, align hone, and redo the heads. And rebuild the trans too. It could snow ball.
What's going to happen to my z bar when I prop the engine up? I don't want to bend it.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Lapham3
Yes, you can usually do some crank/bearing work in the car, but difficult and with an F-body probably worse. I've done it in my old Buick Riviera nailhead
Its going to be a bit of a pain. I have to lift the front of the engine for the pan to clear the cross member. I have to remove the fan, motor mount bolts, loosen trans mount then probably jack on the balancer.
I figure I put around 2000 miles a year so id be able to postpone the rebuild for several years. What prompted you to replace the Buicks bearings and how long did the new ones last. Did you replace both main and rod bearings?
If you have to go through all that, why not just pull it? It's not that much more work.
I'll think about it. But if I pull it out, I might as well install the stroker kit while its out. And bore, deck the block, align hone, and redo the heads. And rebuild the trans too. It could snow ball.
What's going to happen to my z bar when I prop the engine up? I don't want to bend it.
The "might as wells" can get pricy; but economical in the long run.
Good luck
Smoky
Good luck
Smoky
aaargh, as someone who has done this I strongly recommend NO. Too much work for so much risk.
Odds are if it's knocking that something is damaged. I broke a main bearing web in the block of a 1978 400 Poncho and it was completely undetectable until teardown. No noise or nothing!
Take the time and do it right. That means pull the engine...
Odds are if it's knocking that something is damaged. I broke a main bearing web in the block of a 1978 400 Poncho and it was completely undetectable until teardown. No noise or nothing!
Take the time and do it right. That means pull the engine...
I got the oil pan off rather easily. Jacking the engine 3-4 inches. Probably didn't Need to jack that much. I'll start removing bearing caps tomorrow.
The things I hate about pulling the engine is that it takes me about 4 hours to get it back in. You also have to remove the hood and realignment is a terrible job. The biggest consideration is that if the wife sees the engine out of the car, she's going to bust my balls.
The things I hate about pulling the engine is that it takes me about 4 hours to get it back in. You also have to remove the hood and realignment is a terrible job. The biggest consideration is that if the wife sees the engine out of the car, she's going to bust my balls.
I hope you're faster and better at wrenching than I have become. What used to only take me a few hours to R+R is taking me several weekends.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
How does the stroker wok out with the turbo system? Does the turbo become grossly undersized at that point, or does it continue to work well?
Do you have the "turbo charge" indicator lights in your cowl, by any chance?
I'm not sure I buy the embedability thing. I could envision many metal particles stuck in the surface acting like sand paper on the crank. I'd rather the particles flush past the bearing face.
Whether you buy it or not, it is fact and a common industry term. You can slap in bearings in place all you want but unless you're going to pull the crank and do it right, it doesn't matter what type of bearings you use.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
How does the stroker wok out with the turbo system? Does the turbo become grossly undersized at that point, or does it continue to work well?
Do you have the "turbo charge" indicator lights in your cowl, by any chance?
I'm not sure I buy the embedability thing. I could envision many metal particles stuck in the surface acting like sand paper on the crank. I'd rather the particles flush past the bearing face.
Whether you buy it or not, it is fact and a common industry term. You can slap in bearings in place all you want but unless you're going to pull the crank and do it right, it doesn't matter what type of bearings you use.
I finally got this done. King aluminum series main bearings and federal mogul aluminum rod bearings. It was number 1 rod bearing that was spun. It must have been like that when I bought it. There was almost nothing left of the bearing. I resized the cap and trimmed the bearing to fit. I initially used loctite red to lock the bearings in the rod caps. The loctite expands during cure which made the fit too tight to the point that the crank needed 100ft pounds to rotate. So I took it apart and cleaned the loctite out. I decided to pin the bearing on the number 1 cap to help prevent another spun bearing.
We will see how long my unauthorized repair lasts. It has 72325 mi.
We will see how long my unauthorized repair lasts. It has 72325 mi.
turtlevette said:
Last edited:
lol, I can't wait to see the outcome of this.
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
lol, I can't wait to see the outcome of this.
Yep. Doubt he'll update once it fails though. Expose himself as a hack.
lol, I can't wait to see the outcome of this.
Yep. Doubt he'll update once it fails though. Expose himself as a hack.
Originally Posted By: spasm3
turtlevette said:
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
lol, I can't wait to see the outcome of this.
Yep. Doubt he'll update once it fails though. Expose himself as a hack.
Haven't I already established I'm a hack? I don't see much downside here. The difference between you and me is that I don't care what anyone thinks.
Its a judgment call when to turn a crank. I suspect you can get away with a rougher journal surface than what most people think.
A super slick oil might help this thing last. The redline racing oil I bought on sale claims a 30% better coefficient of friction.
Or maybe Ill use that Ms02 stuff you think is so great.
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
lol, I can't wait to see the outcome of this.
Yep. Doubt he'll update once it fails though. Expose himself as a hack.
Haven't I already established I'm a hack? I don't see much downside here. The difference between you and me is that I don't care what anyone thinks.
Its a judgment call when to turn a crank. I suspect you can get away with a rougher journal surface than what most people think.
A super slick oil might help this thing last. The redline racing oil I bought on sale claims a 30% better coefficient of friction.
Or maybe Ill use that Ms02 stuff you think is so great.
I like your honesty. I work exclusively on old cars so I see a lot of repairs like this. It's not the right way to do it, and I don't think you'll get more than 1000 miles, but if it works, it works.
When it fails, please post pictures.
When it fails, please post pictures.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
spasm3 said:
Last edited:
I let it run for about an hour today at fast idle. I'll take it on a shakedown cruise soon. Maybe the bandit run next spring.
Right now I'm running az 40wt HD.
Right now I'm running az 40wt HD.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I finally got this done. King aluminum series main bearings and federal mogul aluminum rod bearings. It was number 1 rod bearing that was spun. It must have been like that when I bought it. There was almost nothing left of the bearing. I resized the cap and trimmed the bearing to fit. I initially used loctite red to lock the bearings in the rod caps. The loctite expands during cure which made the fit too tight to the point that the crank needed 100ft pounds to rotate. So I took it apart and cleaned the loctite out. I decided to pin the bearing on the number 1 cap to help prevent another spun bearing.
We will see how long my unauthorized repair lasts. It has 72325 mi.
turtlevette,
I'm not sure how to say this, but kudos, I can see how you worked through the issues, and was about to suggest pinning the cap, and you were there.
Originally Posted By: spasm3
I see, i guess you know that resizing just the cap means when the cap/rod is reassembled, the hole is not round anymore.
That's true, and in the industry, it's called a "lemon bore" bearing. They are very very much more stable than a plain circular bearing...we get the shape by putting a few 'thou of shims in the half joint, machining it round to shaft diameter +0.0075" per inch of shaft diameter + the shim thickness. Take the shims out, and you get the perfect radial clearance in the vertical plane, and having the two wide points at the part line give a pressure effect that stabilises the shaft.
Turtle has got the same effect by losing the shaft diameter, and closing the radial clearance to get it right.
I'm not predicting a long and healthy life, and would suggest the SAE40 be changed to M1 V-Twin (6.1 HTHS, PLUS plenty of additive).
Turtle done good work.
He asked about my blades a while back... Sometimes you have to take calculated positions.
I finally got this done. King aluminum series main bearings and federal mogul aluminum rod bearings. It was number 1 rod bearing that was spun. It must have been like that when I bought it. There was almost nothing left of the bearing. I resized the cap and trimmed the bearing to fit. I initially used loctite red to lock the bearings in the rod caps. The loctite expands during cure which made the fit too tight to the point that the crank needed 100ft pounds to rotate. So I took it apart and cleaned the loctite out. I decided to pin the bearing on the number 1 cap to help prevent another spun bearing.
We will see how long my unauthorized repair lasts. It has 72325 mi.
turtlevette,
I'm not sure how to say this, but kudos, I can see how you worked through the issues, and was about to suggest pinning the cap, and you were there.
Originally Posted By: spasm3
I see, i guess you know that resizing just the cap means when the cap/rod is reassembled, the hole is not round anymore.
That's true, and in the industry, it's called a "lemon bore" bearing. They are very very much more stable than a plain circular bearing...we get the shape by putting a few 'thou of shims in the half joint, machining it round to shaft diameter +0.0075" per inch of shaft diameter + the shim thickness. Take the shims out, and you get the perfect radial clearance in the vertical plane, and having the two wide points at the part line give a pressure effect that stabilises the shaft.
Turtle has got the same effect by losing the shaft diameter, and closing the radial clearance to get it right.
I'm not predicting a long and healthy life, and would suggest the SAE40 be changed to M1 V-Twin (6.1 HTHS, PLUS plenty of additive).
Turtle done good work.
He asked about my blades a while back... Sometimes you have to take calculated positions.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I finally got this done. King aluminum series main bearings and federal mogul aluminum rod bearings. It was number 1 rod bearing that was spun. It must have been like that when I bought it. There was almost nothing left of the bearing. I resized the cap and trimmed the bearing to fit. I initially used loctite red to lock the bearings in the rod caps. The loctite expands during cure which made the fit too tight to the point that the crank needed 100ft pounds to rotate. So I took it apart and cleaned the loctite out. I decided to pin the bearing on the number 1 cap to help prevent another spun bearing.
We will see how long my unauthorized repair lasts. It has 72325 mi.
turtlevette,
I'm not sure how to say this, but kudos, I can see how you worked through the issues, and was about to suggest pinning the cap, and you were there.
Originally Posted By: spasm3
I see, i guess you know that resizing just the cap means when the cap/rod is reassembled, the hole is not round anymore.
That's true, and in the industry, it's called a "lemon bore" bearing. They are very very much more stable than a plain circular bearing...we get the shape by putting a few 'thou of shims in the half joint, machining it round to shaft diameter +0.0075" per inch of shaft diameter + the shim thickness. Take the shims out, and you get the perfect radial clearance in the vertical plane, and having the two wide points at the part line give a pressure effect that stabilises the shaft.
Turtle has got the same effect by losing the shaft diameter, and closing the radial clearance to get it right.
I'm not predicting a long and healthy life, and would suggest the SAE40 be changed to M1 V-Twin (6.1 HTHS, PLUS plenty of additive).
Turtle done good work.
He asked about my blades a while back... Sometimes you have to take calculated positions.
Either you're pulling my leg or the universe has just collapsed into a singularity. I initially used the m1 TDT because it was on sale a couple years ago, and the rope seal leaked causing large puddles of oil. I was thinking of using the old redline racing 50 I got for $7 quart on eBay. An ester should keep the rope seal expanded.
But I think I get your drift. Guys like us use our ingenuity to fix things others say are unfixable.
It took huge ones to make that turbine repair and take responsibility to say fire it up! I know how conservative the power industry is and people with the knowledge and confidence to keep the lights on are few and far between. Kudos to you x100 sir.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I finally got this done. King aluminum series main bearings and federal mogul aluminum rod bearings. It was number 1 rod bearing that was spun. It must have been like that when I bought it. There was almost nothing left of the bearing. I resized the cap and trimmed the bearing to fit. I initially used loctite red to lock the bearings in the rod caps. The loctite expands during cure which made the fit too tight to the point that the crank needed 100ft pounds to rotate. So I took it apart and cleaned the loctite out. I decided to pin the bearing on the number 1 cap to help prevent another spun bearing.
We will see how long my unauthorized repair lasts. It has 72325 mi.
turtlevette,
I'm not sure how to say this, but kudos, I can see how you worked through the issues, and was about to suggest pinning the cap, and you were there.
Originally Posted By: spasm3
I see, i guess you know that resizing just the cap means when the cap/rod is reassembled, the hole is not round anymore.
That's true, and in the industry, it's called a "lemon bore" bearing. They are very very much more stable than a plain circular bearing...we get the shape by putting a few 'thou of shims in the half joint, machining it round to shaft diameter +0.0075" per inch of shaft diameter + the shim thickness. Take the shims out, and you get the perfect radial clearance in the vertical plane, and having the two wide points at the part line give a pressure effect that stabilises the shaft.
Turtle has got the same effect by losing the shaft diameter, and closing the radial clearance to get it right.
I'm not predicting a long and healthy life, and would suggest the SAE40 be changed to M1 V-Twin (6.1 HTHS, PLUS plenty of additive).
Turtle done good work.
He asked about my blades a while back... Sometimes you have to take calculated positions.
Either you're pulling my leg or the universe has just collapsed into a singularity. I initially used the m1 TDT because it was on sale a couple years ago, and the rope seal leaked causing large puddles of oil. I was thinking of using the old redline racing 50 I got for $7 quart on eBay. An ester should keep the rope seal expanded.
But I think I get your drift. Guys like us use our ingenuity to fix things others say are unfixable.
It took huge ones to make that turbine repair and take responsibility to say fire it up! I know how conservative the power industry is and people with the knowledge and confidence to keep the lights on are few and far between. Kudos to you x100 sir.
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