You all might recall that Purolator is working with me in investigating what happened when my PureOne PL14610 that experienced a tear (misidentified as a Classic in the first post of the first link here).
I just got off of a conference call with MANN+HUMMEL Purolator Filters' Senior Marketing Manager (my primary contact) Tina, the Director of Marketing, and the Director of Engineering. The discussion was cordial, professional, informative and productive (for me), but there are still open items that I and they will pursue.
First I'll describe the situation. After reporting a media tear in a PureOne, I had some discussion with Tina that resulted in an offer to test their filters on each of my 3 vehicles, and have them analyze the used filters (meaning I can't cut them).
Full disclosure, they provided the oil filters, some complimentary air and cabin filters, and a small gift card to cover the cost of oil. So, if you wish to call me a bought-and-paid-for Purolator shill, go right ahead! LOL But I'm also an engineer and I'll just stick with reporting the facts.
The Honda Pilot PL14610 filter OCI completed first and thus was the only filter discussed. Engineering ran the uncut filter through three tests:
1. 90PSI in water, to see if it leaks
2. an Impulse Test of 0-100 PSI for hundreds of cycles (failed to write down how many cycles). This is also a leak inducing test.
3. Restriction Test - A low pressure flow of 3GPM of 30W oil at 180F is passed through the filter and the deltaP is measured.
My filter passed the first two tests, the Restriction Test was then discussed. A typical value is 8PSI but my filter was highly restricted at 23PSI.
Since this is higher than the built-in bypass valve, he suggested that the filter was probably running in bypass mode for some period of time. (I forgot to ask if it was torn because I was trying to write down all the data, but the question may have been pointless considering the impulse test.)
The filter was then cut and a high level of metallic contamination was found in the media, but no sludge. They no longer have the filter (their fault, for letting this drag on so long) but offered to test the torn filter if I can find it to send in.
Some discussion followed. I agreed to try to find the torn filter and send it in, and also get a UOA for that vehicle. I asked point-blank if production changes had been made for the Classic and PureOne. The Director of Engineering after some hesitation and repeated "we're looking closely at the situation" finally said he was committed to change the filter media on the PureOne line. The Director of Marketing asked if that was filter specific, no, one media is used across the entire line, so it would be an upgrade for all PureOne's.
The Director of Engineering pointed out a few facts about the PureOne. One, the PureOne is a 99% at 20 microns filter. I pointed out that this published data is NOT clear on their marketing information and the general opinion on the boards is that the Ultra is better and the PureOne is something less than 99%.
Another fact is that PureOne's have to pass an extended test of 500 hours oil flow at 300 degrees. [censored], I forgot to ask him about if there was a particle load associated with that test, but anyway the test is supposed to exceed any extended OCI interval. (I hope so!)
So I asked, what about the Classic, since that is where the majority of media failures have been reported? After some back and forth, it was clear that Marketing was aware of the Classic problem and the tear spreadsheet, but Engineering was not. The spreadsheet is being forwarded to Engineering as I write.
To sum up: I may have engine wear problems, and I will be doing a UOA, shortening my OCI's and doing a wet/dry compression test. (The engine runs well but mileage is a bit lacking). This will all take a while, but I'll report back here when I'm done. Purolator is aware of PureOne media issues and improved, stronger media is a planned improvement, but Engineering is starting from scratch on the Classic issues.
That's all I got. I'll report back later and try to answer any questions, but pretty much everything I know is in this one post. Let's try to keep the discussion civil.
I just got off of a conference call with MANN+HUMMEL Purolator Filters' Senior Marketing Manager (my primary contact) Tina, the Director of Marketing, and the Director of Engineering. The discussion was cordial, professional, informative and productive (for me), but there are still open items that I and they will pursue.
First I'll describe the situation. After reporting a media tear in a PureOne, I had some discussion with Tina that resulted in an offer to test their filters on each of my 3 vehicles, and have them analyze the used filters (meaning I can't cut them).
Full disclosure, they provided the oil filters, some complimentary air and cabin filters, and a small gift card to cover the cost of oil. So, if you wish to call me a bought-and-paid-for Purolator shill, go right ahead! LOL But I'm also an engineer and I'll just stick with reporting the facts.
The Honda Pilot PL14610 filter OCI completed first and thus was the only filter discussed. Engineering ran the uncut filter through three tests:
1. 90PSI in water, to see if it leaks
2. an Impulse Test of 0-100 PSI for hundreds of cycles (failed to write down how many cycles). This is also a leak inducing test.
3. Restriction Test - A low pressure flow of 3GPM of 30W oil at 180F is passed through the filter and the deltaP is measured.
My filter passed the first two tests, the Restriction Test was then discussed. A typical value is 8PSI but my filter was highly restricted at 23PSI.
Since this is higher than the built-in bypass valve, he suggested that the filter was probably running in bypass mode for some period of time. (I forgot to ask if it was torn because I was trying to write down all the data, but the question may have been pointless considering the impulse test.)
The filter was then cut and a high level of metallic contamination was found in the media, but no sludge. They no longer have the filter (their fault, for letting this drag on so long) but offered to test the torn filter if I can find it to send in.
Some discussion followed. I agreed to try to find the torn filter and send it in, and also get a UOA for that vehicle. I asked point-blank if production changes had been made for the Classic and PureOne. The Director of Engineering after some hesitation and repeated "we're looking closely at the situation" finally said he was committed to change the filter media on the PureOne line. The Director of Marketing asked if that was filter specific, no, one media is used across the entire line, so it would be an upgrade for all PureOne's.
The Director of Engineering pointed out a few facts about the PureOne. One, the PureOne is a 99% at 20 microns filter. I pointed out that this published data is NOT clear on their marketing information and the general opinion on the boards is that the Ultra is better and the PureOne is something less than 99%.
Another fact is that PureOne's have to pass an extended test of 500 hours oil flow at 300 degrees. [censored], I forgot to ask him about if there was a particle load associated with that test, but anyway the test is supposed to exceed any extended OCI interval. (I hope so!)
So I asked, what about the Classic, since that is where the majority of media failures have been reported? After some back and forth, it was clear that Marketing was aware of the Classic problem and the tear spreadsheet, but Engineering was not. The spreadsheet is being forwarded to Engineering as I write.
To sum up: I may have engine wear problems, and I will be doing a UOA, shortening my OCI's and doing a wet/dry compression test. (The engine runs well but mileage is a bit lacking). This will all take a while, but I'll report back here when I'm done. Purolator is aware of PureOne media issues and improved, stronger media is a planned improvement, but Engineering is starting from scratch on the Classic issues.
That's all I got. I'll report back later and try to answer any questions, but pretty much everything I know is in this one post. Let's try to keep the discussion civil.
