Dirty rifles

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Took some rifles and rock dust out to the range a couple weeks ago. We dusted a Mini-14, a AR15, Beretta ARX, FN SCAR, and a Arsenal SKR-107FR (AK47).

Things did not turn out as you might expect: Dirty Rifles

BSW
 
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Did not expect that.
shocked.gif


Thanks!
 
Great video. I'd get some PMAGS and Lancers though. HK "high reliability" mags is kinda an oxymoron, as Tapco's are better than HK mags in my experience.
 
Needs better editing.
36min was boring

Could have sped up parts etc.. got that down to 10min
 
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Thanks for the vid!

The results are at 36:26 for the guys that don't want to watch the whole thing.

This video confirms a few things:

1. This is why the military hasn't bother to "upgrade" their rifles from the ar-15 platform. All the others are more expensive and don't offer alot of advantages, especially in the reliability department.

2. Rifles that operate in the "sealed system" (where the gas system and all moving parts are sealed out from potential contamination) type of design do better with this type of test. With the bolt closed and ejection port shut, the ar-15 does a very good job of sealing out contaminants and tends to stay reliable. The mini and AK's more open bolt designs choke pretty quickly, as we saw. I must admit I was hesitant (as were many others) to accept the idea of the sealed system working better, in the presence of dirt but it does. There are many other tests out there that show this.

One possible caveat: That is a lot of dirt! I never found any of my equipment that dirty in my 6 years active duty as an airborne MP. I can't really think of any situation where a rifle would get quite that dirty without at least being shaken or tapped out before firing.

Cool test either way, thanks!
 
Originally Posted By: Rand
Needs better editing.
36min was boring

Could have sped up parts etc.. got that down to 10min


It could have been edited more, but then people start talking about 'sabotage' and 'editing tricks' when their favorite doesn't run as long as they think it should.

The mags may have been a weak point but they were the same for all of the rifles, Mini-14 excepted.

BSW
 
While these type of tests are all fun to watch, they really don't have much in the way of real world results. Every military in the world does rigorous testing of any and all rifles and pistols they adapt. I highly doubt you could find 2 weapons in the last half century, more tested and battle proven than the AK-47, and the M-16 / AR-15 platform of rifles.

No one in the military, let alone civilian life, would ever expose their firearms to this type of treatment. Intentional or otherwise. This is akin to the Saturday morning Infomercials, that put sand and water into an automobile engine's crankcase, then run it in some half baked attempt to showcase their product. Again, fun to watch while having your morning coffee, but has zero practical use. This is bit like taking the Big 3 full size pickup trucks, and judge their ruggedness by pitting them against one another in a demolition derby. Again, fun to watch, but totally pointless.

I own and shoot several AR's, (both piston & D.I.), AK's, as well as Mini 14's. All do what they're designed to do with a minimum of care, lubrication, and maintenance. I would not gauge their dependability on something like this. With that said, you did a good job in producing this video, and it was entertaining to view.
 
Was wondering about the mags, as it appeared that the AR stoppage was due to a round not feeding...I'm a PMAG fan...and curious how their use might have changed the results...

I watched the whole thing...and after cringing at the dirt to which those poor rifles were subjected...I'm going to clean my LR308...which I had at the range yesterday...
 
P
Originally Posted By: billt460
While these type of tests are all fun to watch, they really don't have much in the way of real world results. Every military in the world does rigorous testing of any and all rifles and pistols they adapt. I highly doubt you could find 2 weapons in the last half century, more tested and battle proven than the AK-47, and the M-16 / AR-15 platform of rifles.

No one in the military, let alone civilian life, would ever expose their firearms to this type of treatment. Intentional or otherwise. This is akin to the Saturday morning Infomercials, that put sand and water into an automobile engine's crankcase, then run it in some half baked attempt to showcase their product. Again, fun to watch while having your morning coffee, but has zero practical use. This is bit like taking the Big 3 full size pickup trucks, and judge their ruggedness by pitting them against one another in a demolition derby. Again, fun to watch, but totally pointless.

I own and shoot several AR's, (both piston & D.I.), AK's, as well as Mini 14's. All do what they're designed to do with a minimum of care, lubrication, and maintenance. I would not gauge their dependability on something like this. With that said, you did a good job in producing this video, and it was entertaining to view.


I totally agree that the testing I did wasn't scientific. I didn't have a hypothesis and my sample size was way too small.

Less severe testing, like only shooting 10 rounds dirty would not have separated the SCAR, AR, and ARX, from each other. I agree that the amount of dust used were excessive, but I was going for overkill to try and get the rifles to fail early. And even with that level of dusting both the AR and ARX made it through a complete magazine.

BSW
 
Anecdotal or not, it does help squelch the internet myth of the generic home AR-15 seizing up on a grain the size of two Si atoms. It was a bit long.........but worth it to find out that an AK does malfunction, something that "never" happens.

I have a question:

The barrier downrange - what is that? What is it made of?
 
Wow, thanks for taking the time to do that real world test and post it for us. I was thinking of adding an AK to my collection because so many people claim it is so more reliable.

Forget that.
grin2.gif
 
One test isnt enough to determine reliability or not. Cool tests no doubt, but my first statement still stands.

You can bet the average carpet fighter issued AK-47 sees little to no cleaning, oiling etc., but still shoots like a champ.
 
Originally Posted By: Doog
Wow, thanks for taking the time to do that real world test and post it for us. I was thinking of adding an AK to my collection because so many people claim it is so more reliable.

Forget that.
grin2.gif



One test does not an accurate picture paint and indeed the poster admits this. I think the historical evidence speaks volumes for the reliability and durability of some rifles like the AK47. If you look at the environments in which it has served well (The middle east, the Sahara, the jungles and rice paddies of Asia, etc), one cannot call it anything less than a reliable weapon.

I know until we started giving the Israelis boatloads of AR platform rifles, what did they choose for the inspiration for their own indigenous rifle? That is right the AK was the basis for the Galil.

Now all AK rifles are not made equal. Some, like the Aresenal weapons seem to be built "better" and are threfore a bit more precise. However, if you look at those made in the middle east such as the Egyptian made Maadi or the Iraqi made ones....they tend to be built with more "slop" to them. I know my Romanian made AK rattles a lot more than my friends Arsenal as well.
 
Originally Posted By: Doog
Wow, thanks for taking the time to do that real world test and post it for us. I was thinking of adding an AK to my collection because so many people claim it is so more reliable.

Forget that.
grin2.gif




Add it anyway! I own both and I enjoy shooting my AK twice as much as my AR. Out to about 200 yards I'm just as accurate with open sights with the 7.62's as well.

Don't get me wrong I love my AR, I bought and assembled it myself, but I just love the POP, rugged feel, and heavy muzzle climb of the AK! It's just so much fun too shoot. 7.62's are also dirt cheap.
 
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