OVERKILL
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I'd ask Mobil and/or Doug Hillary about this, it may not be significant.
TAN - M1EP versus M1 AFE (0W-20)
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Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: tig1
Money should be spent on oil and filters and changing at 10K.
You of all people should know that you can go past 10K with M1. My UOA stream is part of a long term project for the life of my FX4.
Me of all people do know this, however 10K seems to be the sweet spot for OCIs for the driving I do. This is why I never have a need for UOAs. Also, I have been using 0-20AFE for several years now and have found it to be performing very well. If I drove a lot more I most likely would step my OCIs up to say 12-15K. With this said I do appreciate your reports on 0-20.
Originally Posted By: tig1
Money should be spent on oil and filters and changing at 10K.
You of all people should know that you can go past 10K with M1. My UOA stream is part of a long term project for the life of my FX4.
Me of all people do know this, however 10K seems to be the sweet spot for OCIs for the driving I do. This is why I never have a need for UOAs. Also, I have been using 0-20AFE for several years now and have found it to be performing very well. If I drove a lot more I most likely would step my OCIs up to say 12-15K. With this said I do appreciate your reports on 0-20.
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Originally Posted By: jdavis
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Why? Regular M1 can do that with half its TBN.
Warranty purposes
Well, you do not need EP for a 5K OCI--AFE is cheaper and will do just as well. On a 5K OCI though I would look into QSUD as it is even cheaper and would not be half used up at 5K.
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Why? Regular M1 can do that with half its TBN.
Warranty purposes
Well, you do not need EP for a 5K OCI--AFE is cheaper and will do just as well. On a 5K OCI though I would look into QSUD as it is even cheaper and would not be half used up at 5K.
M1 AFE is all you need for a long healthy engine break
To be honest, they only reason I haven't done AFE in it (or other Synthetics) was simply the PAO in EP, for some reason in my mind it screams superb longevity.
Originally Posted By: Jake777
2010 FX4? As you have used PU, MS, M1 what do you think is the better oil for basic cleaning on a sludge engine running 3-4k OCI?
Any of those oils will work well. However, you need to determine if you even have a "sludge engine" before you try and fix something.
2010 FX4? As you have used PU, MS, M1 what do you think is the better oil for basic cleaning on a sludge engine running 3-4k OCI?
Any of those oils will work well. However, you need to determine if you even have a "sludge engine" before you try and fix something.
MolaKule
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Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
I updated the UOA thread, but it became awash in the sea of other posts, so I thought that I would start a new one specifically about the topic at hand.
I recently ran M1EP for 17,475 miles and posted the UOA, but at the time Blackstone forgot to run the TAN on the oil. They did that and sent me the results and I have to admit, I am not overly excited about the TAN numbers or EP (at this point). AFE (in my engine) seems to work as well as if not better than EP. AFE had a TAN of 5.3 at 15,109 miles whereas EP had a TAN of 8.9 at 17,475 miles. Although the EP was ran for 2 months longer and 2,366 miles further, I do not believe there should be such a variance in the TAN numbers. The wear metal numbers are similar so the higher TAN did not affect wear--yet. I plan to cut this run of EP at 15K to see how it directly compares to AFE, but unless something changes, I may go back to AFE.
Thoughts? Comments?
There are basically two types of wear in an engine. Wear from friction and corrosive wear from acids that form when the TBN goes below 1.
I updated the UOA thread, but it became awash in the sea of other posts, so I thought that I would start a new one specifically about the topic at hand.
I recently ran M1EP for 17,475 miles and posted the UOA, but at the time Blackstone forgot to run the TAN on the oil. They did that and sent me the results and I have to admit, I am not overly excited about the TAN numbers or EP (at this point). AFE (in my engine) seems to work as well as if not better than EP. AFE had a TAN of 5.3 at 15,109 miles whereas EP had a TAN of 8.9 at 17,475 miles. Although the EP was ran for 2 months longer and 2,366 miles further, I do not believe there should be such a variance in the TAN numbers. The wear metal numbers are similar so the higher TAN did not affect wear--yet. I plan to cut this run of EP at 15K to see how it directly compares to AFE, but unless something changes, I may go back to AFE.
Thoughts? Comments?
There are basically two types of wear in an engine. Wear from friction and corrosive wear from acids that form when the TBN goes below 1.
I read your spreadsheet numbers with great interest. I had to Google what a 2010 Ford F-150 FX4 5.4L FFV was as big V8s engines like this are something of a rarity over here. Am I right in thinking this MPI, not GDI and there's no turbo?
To my eyes, you have a perfect set of UOAs. No oil thickening, no wear metals and naff all fuel dilution. Yes some of the TBN numbers are low but that's about par for the course. TBN always depletes quickly and it's not something I'd necessarily worry about if KV100 and Iron are okay.
Regarding the 8.9 TAN, the first thing I'd do if this was my test would be get a recheck. People think TAN & TBN measurements are so routine as to be infallible but that's not my experience.
If it did check out at 8.9, then I might think to myself that The Big Engineer In The Sky is tapping me on the shoulder and telling me to watch out!
When oils 'break', they do so astonishingly quickly. I've see oils close to their end-of-life go from apparently normal to 'too viscous to measure' in the space of 20 hours.
If you did run the next OCI out to 20,000 miles, and got another 8.9 or slightly above, I wouldn't necessarily conclude that the TAN had stabilised. Sometimes TAN just stops rising (even though logic says it should) and it usually means that the oil is actively dumping sludge. I've no idea why oil behaves like this; I just know that it does.
One final thing. I looked at a YouTube clip of someone dismantling one of these engines and putting in new pistons and rings. The rings look seriously thick; just what you want for good cylinder sealing. I think what this says is that if you don't play fast and loose with the mechanical bits, then these low viscosity oils work just fine.
To my eyes, you have a perfect set of UOAs. No oil thickening, no wear metals and naff all fuel dilution. Yes some of the TBN numbers are low but that's about par for the course. TBN always depletes quickly and it's not something I'd necessarily worry about if KV100 and Iron are okay.
Regarding the 8.9 TAN, the first thing I'd do if this was my test would be get a recheck. People think TAN & TBN measurements are so routine as to be infallible but that's not my experience.
If it did check out at 8.9, then I might think to myself that The Big Engineer In The Sky is tapping me on the shoulder and telling me to watch out!
When oils 'break', they do so astonishingly quickly. I've see oils close to their end-of-life go from apparently normal to 'too viscous to measure' in the space of 20 hours.
If you did run the next OCI out to 20,000 miles, and got another 8.9 or slightly above, I wouldn't necessarily conclude that the TAN had stabilised. Sometimes TAN just stops rising (even though logic says it should) and it usually means that the oil is actively dumping sludge. I've no idea why oil behaves like this; I just know that it does.
One final thing. I looked at a YouTube clip of someone dismantling one of these engines and putting in new pistons and rings. The rings look seriously thick; just what you want for good cylinder sealing. I think what this says is that if you don't play fast and loose with the mechanical bits, then these low viscosity oils work just fine.
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