Toilet paper oil filter

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How is that controlled? What stops Billy Bob from using quilted Charmin because that's what his wife bought last time at the grocery store, and he's changing the oil today?

That's my whole problem with these filters. I don't care how you slice it, toilet paper is not an engineered filtering media and the technical specifications that Kimberly Clark uses to design their toilet paper are not the same ones that Honeywell, Bosch and Hengst use to design an oil filter. Like I mentioned in another thread on these filters, I'd have an easier time if they used coffee filters instead of toilet paper. At least there you are using something that is designed as a filtering media. I still wouldn't use it over an actual oil filter, but at least you are using something that has "filter" in the name.

Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech
TP doesn't fall apart and dust from the roll sawing at the mill is a non issue. You just cant use quilted, soft, recycled fiber,... TP. Paper towels, wound cotton, and crushed newspaper are other medias.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
How is that controlled? What stops Billy Bob from using quilted Charmin because that's what his wife bought last time at the grocery store, and he's changing the oil today?

That's my whole problem with these filters. I don't care how you slice it, toilet paper is not an engineered filtering media and the technical specifications that Kimberly Clark uses to design their toilet paper are not the same ones that Honeywell, Bosch and Hengst use to design an oil filter. Like I mentioned in another thread on these filters, I'd have an easier time if they used coffee filters instead of toilet paper. At least there you are using something that is designed as a filtering media. I still wouldn't use it over an actual oil filter, but at least you are using something that has "filter" in the name.

Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech
TP doesn't fall apart and dust from the roll sawing at the mill is a non issue. You just cant use quilted, soft, recycled fiber,... TP. Paper towels, wound cotton, and crushed newspaper are other medias.


You're over reacting to the concept.

Yes there are a number of variables as you clearly point out.
That goes the same for Billy Bob and his desire to fit and or service the K&N Air filter in his vehicle.
Or anything else Billy Bob does with the blessing/assistance of his wife.
One can't account for stupidity.
And there's a lot of it out there, with the situation getting worse.

It's one of the main reasons why I personally choose not to buy second hand vehicles.

Further, I think you are confusing the roll(no pun intended) of a toilet roll type bypass filter.

The key is in the fact that it's only a bypass filter.
It's not intended to replace the full flow filter in terms of it's functionality.
Nor can it do the same job as the full flow filter.
On the other hand, the full flow filter can never be as effective as a bypass filter.
Both designs have flaws, but together they are very effective.

Worst case scenario is the bypass filter is either completely blocked or not present in the canister.
There's no disadvantage either way as far as I can tell.
Obviously, if the wrong type of filter media is fitted and it progressively falls apart it's Billy Bob's responsibility and he will be accountable to his lovely wife for that.
If he gets it wrong there's no problem for you.
The worst thing that can happen is that he and his lovely wife will be walking around, while the engine is repaired, and he'll be sleeping in the doghouse(if he isn't already anyway).
Hopefully lesson learnt, and it's only money.

At the end of the day these filter manufacturers are quite clear about what media to use.
If one can't adhere to the manufacturers specifications, then the liability rests solely with the owner.

I do tend to prefer the Amsoil alternative where they have a spin on bypass element.
No toilet paper to worry about at all.
But it won't stop me from using the toilet roll filter.

At the end of the day I understand that it's not intended, nor is it marketed that it can be used over a full flow oil filter. The installation instructions don't state that it be used instead of the full flow filter.
It's installed as a supplemental system.
 
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To zpinch: You said, "Kira, you are an old joke. lol Seriously, they are real."
Let me tell you something, I've been called worse things by better people. Ha-Ha from me too.
I love you guys.

To the matter at hand: I had NO IDEA the T.P. filter was real. I feel educated, seriously.
That it's a bypass filter makes all the sense in the world.
I watched the video with the cat and VW dune buggy in it.

At present I'd go for a bypass filter with a more formal element (if was efficient enough) over a T.P. one. Kira
 
The TP filters make excellent fuel filters, too! Especially good at removing entrained moisture because the cellulose absorbs it as the fuel passes through.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
The TP filters make excellent fuel filters, too! Especially good at removing entrained moisture because the cellulose absorbs it as the fuel passes through.
How does the cellulose absorb water when is it saturated with the gas. I always wondered about that claim? I have seen elements that coalese the water and it drops to a [sump] in the filter that can be drained
 
Honestly, I am not a chemist so I cannot answer that. But every single source I've ever investigated substantiates that statement.

It's even evident with household products; the absorbancy of paper products is not based soley on the napping of the fiber weave, but the actual ability of the cellulose to take in moisture inside it's fibers.

Obviously there would be a saturation point where the media would be fully loaded and then likely pass moisture, but that would be no worse than never absorbing it in the first place ... but you do get the benefit of delayed passing by the terms of duration of absorbing the moisture.

How it differentiates between hydrocarbon liquids (fuels and oils) and water is beyond me. I'll leave that to someone who knows better than I.

I am famous for standing by results and not worring so much about input predictors. Whereas I am not a chemist and cannot explain the elemental and bonding reactions, I can accept that they exist and note the results. For example I don't worry much about which lube has what amount of boron, phos, ZDDP, Ca, Mg, etc. I only care about how much they reduce wear. Same goes for the fact that cellulose absorbs moisture; I cannot explain how it works, but I accept that it does acheive this effect.
 
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Originally Posted By: Kira
To zpinch: You said, "Kira, you are an old joke. lol Seriously, they are real."
Let me tell you something, I've been called worse things by better people. Ha-Ha from me too.
I love you guys.

To the matter at hand: I had NO IDEA the T.P. filter was real. I feel educated, seriously.
That it's a bypass filter makes all the sense in the world.
I watched the video with the cat and VW dune buggy in it.

At present I'd go for a bypass filter with a more formal element (if was efficient enough) over a T.P. one. Kira


Hah! I meant to say it's NOT an old joke, not you, funny what you end up typing on a phone. lol

Glad you didn't take it too bad.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Honestly, I am not a chemist so I cannot answer that. But every single source I've ever investigated substantiates that statement.

It's even evident with household products; the absorbancy of paper products is not based soley on the napping of the fiber weave, but the actual ability of the cellulose to take in moisture inside it's fibers.

Obviously there would be a saturation point where the media would be fully loaded and then likely pass moisture, but that would be no worse than never absorbing it in the first place ... but you do get the benefit of delayed passing by the terms of duration of absorbing the moisture.

How it differentiates between hydrocarbon liquids (fuels and oils) and water is beyond me. I'll leave that to someone who knows better than I.

I am famous for standing by results and not worring so much about input predictors. Whereas I am not a chemist and cannot explain the elemental and bonding reactions, I can accept that they exist and note the results. For example I don't worry much about which lube has what amount of boron, phos, ZDDP, Ca, Mg, etc. I only care about how much they reduce wear. Same goes for the fact that cellulose absorbs moisture; I cannot explain how it works, but I accept that it does acheive this effect.


Kleenoil USA states their filters will absorb and adsorb. I am assuming this means that when the oil reaches a certain temperature the fibers release the water back into the oil stream? In this case, and if the engine continues to run long enough, dries out the filter, effectively? What are your thoughts on this?
 
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No, absorption and adsorption are similar in that the atoms are attached to the substrate, but in adsorption it is only on the surface and not into the inner matrix of the absorbent. Neither one describes the desorption of anything.

Originally Posted By: zpinch
Kleenoil USA states their filters will absorb and adsorb. I am assuming this means that when the oil reaches a certain temperature the fibers release the water back into the oil stream? In this case, and if the engine continues to run long enough, dries out the filter, effectively? What are your thoughts on this?
 
Originally Posted By: Kira
Hello, Gentleman, please! This is an old joke like cow tipping or snipe hunting.

There ain't no toilet paper oil filters.
The paper would wad up instantly, slam into the outlet port of the filter or housing and life would cease to exist as we know it. Kira
Not so.
 
I think if you guys get serious and want to know more about these filters I think you will become impressed and start to seriously question some of what we think we know about filtration, what works, why it works, how it works, and just how the industry shifted from replaceable filter elements to the cartridge/canister type filters used today.

I have to admit I have been very skeptical in the past, but I kept an open mind and have spent the last year or so reading and trying to understand the history, use, and examples of people running these filters and frankly I am reasonably impressed. I also wanted to understand the risks and frankly most of the stuff you hear or would even assume about toilet paper as a filter material has proven to be largely wrong from my own reading and researching the info that is available online.

So I am now going to take the leap myself and install a Frantz bypass on one of my vehicles and begin the testing. Overall it looks like it will be a great tool to add to my vehicle for extended OCI with UOA. Once I get it setup I will be glad to post my results on the forum.
 
Frantz had the explanation I think why water is retained in the paper, does not come out, it's due to surface tension and density differences between water and oil, if I remember.
 
I have a '94 Grand Cherokee with a 4.0l running 2 Frantz on the engine and auto tranny, an '01 Dodge Cummins with an Amsoil Dual Remote filter setup with a Ralph Wood 'MG 750' feeding off the Amsoil filter head and a regular MG 30 between the in bed tank and the factory tank. And finally my wife's '06 Dodge Durango with Ralph Wood Motorguards on the Hemi and the auto tranny.

600000 miles of driving with toilet paper doing the filtering. UOAs got boring after a while, I will change oil if I see, feel or smell anything in the oil. other than that....
 
Hi guys,

I have been running a Frantz Filter on my 1996 Dodge 2500 Cummins for the last three years. I had been looking at by pass filters for a few weeks, I wanted something to take the soot out of my Schaeffer Supreme 9000, when I stumbled across this tech thread on the Cummins site and I was sold.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/genera...oil-filter.html

I bought two, one for the 96 and one for my 89 6BT Ramcharger. Since putting the one on the 96 my oil has maintained a Schaeffer green as the day I put it in. I had been changing it every year but I’m going to try the lab this year. Frantz says it filters to 2 microns, whatever it does it gets out the black that my Fleetguard didn’t.

These filters, or ones like it have been around for years and they do work. The cost isn’t cheap at $195.00 for the old type or $225.00 for the new kind. The toilet paper can be bought from Frantz or you can use the Scott 1-ply kind. One of these days I'd like to get one for the trans and one for the fuel also.
 
I have been using a toilet paper bypass oil filter on a primitive 20/2 listeroid slow speed diesel for years with excellent results. The piston oil pump circulates 1.5 oz per minute through the filter and it really works well.
 
I have had a Frantz on my 2005 Dodge Cummins since new. 5000 mile oil change interval and 2500 mile filter change. UOA are boring as stated earlier. Good stuff in my opinion. Ed B
 
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