Valvoline Maxlife vs Amsoil ATF

[Gannet167]

I have a 2004 4Runner with a 4 speed Aisin A340F transmission. 110,000 miles. It shifts fine but is dirty.

Valvoline Maxlife is $32 at my local Walmart working out to about $6.60 per liter. Amsoil Synthetic ATF is $15.99 a quart, working out to about $16.90 per liter. Approximately 14 to 15 liters are required, including my remote filter.

The cost difference is about $140 to $150. Amsoil is way more expensive comparatively, but an extra $150 is really not a huge overall cost, particularly considering the cost of a transmission. Is it worth it?

I will be pumping out the old fluid through the cooler line and adding new ATF in (the poor man's flush, frequently done on these trucks) since dropping the pan only gets about 3 quarts out of this 13 quart transmission. A simple drain and fill only replaces about 20% of the fluid, meaning I'd need to do 15 drain and fills to change out 80% of the fluid. The pump and re-fill gets about 80% out.

Is Amsoil really that good? Is a measily $150 not worth worrying about considering how long I'll probably run this fluid for?

 

[zach1900]

Silly me, I thought 20% x 5 was 100%, out Highlander drops 5 quarts from the drain plug and the Camry only slightly over 2 quarts, why are you so worried about it , just do a drain and refill when you change your engine oil and after a few (not 15) ATF changes it will be as good as new.

 

[Click]

In U.S. the AMSOIL 'retail' price for ATF is either $11.50 or $8.10 per quart depending on which product you buy... I dont see how the exchange rate can double the price for you up there. Have you talked to an AMSOIL dealer up there? Or are the prices you quote from an auto parts store?
Their ATF is great but the price difference is hard to understand.

 

[zach1900]

Just get some Pennzoil full synthetic, under $5 a quart (silver bottle) it's even got Toyota A-W JWS 3309 approval, though can be hard to find, I got mine at Big R, Menards carries a clone in the quaker state bottle,s name fluid and specs and slightly cheaper without the thin-ness of Maxlife.

 

[Joel_MD]

I use Amsoil Signature Series synthetic ATF in the Aisin transmission in my Saab. I have the Amsoil "preferred customer" membership (or whatever it's called) and I recall the ATF costing about $35/gallon plus tax and shipping. If I had to pay $16 a quart I would use something like Maxlife, as long as it met the JWS 3309 specification.

 

[mjk]

Originally Posted By: zach1900
Silly me, I thought 20% x 5 was 100%, out Highlander drops 5 quarts from the drain plug and the Camry only slightly over 2 quarts, why are you so worried about it , just do a drain and refill when you change your engine oil and after a few (not 15) ATF changes it will be as good as new.


You know, this isn't how fluid replacement works.

There used to be a fluid replacement calculator here, but it is now gone.

Fluid exchange calc

 

[dnewton3]

This is really no different than a motor oil issue, or gear box fluid, or coolant, or filters, etc ...

If the Amsoil costs X% more, are you going to get some tangible value for that added expense?

One of two things must be true for the extra expense to be a good decision:
1) you'll get X% less wear
2) you'll get X% longer use of the product

For any "normal" application, I suspect, because these are both excellent fluids, that they will perform very well, and probably protect from wear equally well for any "normal" duration. So you're unlikely to see less wear for a normal OCI. Hence, the way to get Amsoil to pay out is to use it far longer. But do do that, you have to know (with certainty, not a guess) how far the ML product can go, to establish a baseline, before you can justify a "longer" interval of "X%".

Have you tested the ML product in UOAs and established a safe but practical OCI limit? If not, then you have ZERO idea of what the ROI must be for the Amsoil.

In short, unless you operate in a condition that would compromise one product, and allow the other to excel past it's competitor, you have no ability to fairly judge the two products objectively. And until you test them both, you have no idea which is the "better" performer per dollar. If the Amsoil can get past X% and still work, then it's paying back with a positive ROI. If not, even if it lasts longer, it would be cheaper to use the ML and simply change oil more often.

Any two products competing for the same market place can always be judged upon performance and cost; the two are not separable from each other. We often her folks say "if cost were no object ... ", but that's stupid because that makes for an unrealistic venture. When you artificially limit one criteria, it makes the other criteria easily manipulated by simple math. If money is no object, then the topic of wear control isn't about ROI, it's about arbitrary OCI settings that have no basis. Why change ATF at 30k miles? Why not 25k miles, or 50k miles, or 43.67589 miles?

To PROPERLY judge a product, you have to FIRST establish performance criteria (often with lubes, it's condemnation limits of wear metals and physical properties). Then you test the products to see how far they can go without exceeding those limits. Then you find the lowest cost ratio to performs to those limits. Even if a product may not last quite as long, it may be "cheaper" just to OCI more frequently and still manage the wear to the same net effect!



I realize this is a bummer; having to apply logic and math to an emotional brand loyalty topic is no fun and not the BITOG way ....



Now - if this were only summarized in a concise statement ....

(Pssssssssttttt .... read my signature line)



.

 

[Brybo86]

Dnewton3 is correct. You might as well put canola oil in your trans. Because hey, anything else would just be wasteful. Get a UOA on the canola oil and if the wear numbers are not satisfactory only then can you consider increasing your oil budget.


Anyways...
If it were me I would go with Maxlife for that price.

I got a bunch of Amsoil ATF for $5 a quart during the oreilly's clearance so i have been using that up.

 

[stchman]

Originally Posted By: Gannet167
I have a 2004 4Runner with a 4 speed Aisin A340F transmission. 110,000 miles. It shifts fine but is dirty.

Valvoline Maxlife is $32 at my local Walmart working out to about $6.60 per liter. Amsoil Synthetic ATF is $15.99 a quart, working out to about $16.90 per liter. Approximately 14 to 15 liters are required, including my remote filter.

The cost difference is about $140 to $150. Amsoil is way more expensive comparatively, but an extra $150 is really not a huge overall cost, particularly considering the cost of a transmission. Is it worth it?

I will be pumping out the old fluid through the cooler line and adding new ATF in (the poor man's flush, frequently done on these trucks) since dropping the pan only gets about 3 quarts out of this 13 quart transmission. A simple drain and fill only replaces about 20% of the fluid, meaning I'd need to do 15 drain and fills to change out 80% of the fluid. The pump and re-fill gets about 80% out.

Is Amsoil really that good? Is a measily $150 not worth worrying about considering how long I'll probably run this fluid for?


Here in the US, a 1 gallon jug of MaxLife ATF is $17.70 at the local Walmart. This comes out to $4.68 per liter. I gather the jugs of MaxLife ATF in Canada are 5 quart?

Valvoline MaxLife is good stuff, people rarely if ever complain about it.

Considering the Amsoil stuff is ~2.5X more per liter, go with the Valvoline.

 

[Gannet167]

Originally Posted By: zach1900
Silly me, I thought 20% x 5 was 100%, out Highlander drops 5 quarts from the drain plug and the Camry only slightly over 2 quarts, why are you so worried about it , just do a drain and refill when you change your engine oil and after a few (not 15) ATF changes it will be as good as new.


You drain and replace 20%, you have 80% dirty fluid. You drive and it mixes. Now you drain another 20%, but you're draining fluid that's 80% dirty. You add 20%, you now have 80% x 20% = 16 % dirty fluid drained out. Now you have roughly 36% clean fluid. You drive, it mixes. You drain 20%, but now you're draining 64% dirty fluid, so 64% x 20% = 12.8. You now have 51% clean fluid. And so on:

1st Drain: 100% dirty x 80% = 80% dirty
2nd Drain: 80% dirty x 80% = 64% dirty
3rd Drain: 64% dirty x 80% = 51% dirty
4th Drain: 51% dirty x 80% = 41% dirty
5th Drain: 41% dirty x 90% = 33% dirty
6th Drain: 33% dirty x 80% = 26% dirty
7th Drain: 26% dirty x 80% = 16% dirty
8th Drain: 16% dirty x 80% = 13% dirty
9th Drain: 13% dirty x 80% = 10% dirty

So to get 80% out of my trans I'd need 6-7 drain and fills. That's 21 liters of fluid and a lot of PITA. Or, since the trans holds about 13 liters, I probably need 10 to 12 to fill it. Or, about half the fluid to achieve the same result.

 

[midnightlaundry]

If price means anything, the Amsoil would be the way. They published a great longevity test they did with a Vegas Taxi on their site.

The poor mans flush is the way to go. If you know how much fluid your system holds, then it's easy to calculate.

My vehicle would pump out about 4 quarts thru the cooler lines before it would lose prime. So I would pump in 4 quarts, and then let the trans pump out 4 more. Repeat until you reach the mark. My fluid came out bright pink as calculated.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Cooler line flush is the only way to go, as far as I am concerned.

All bets are off once you are dealing with a weirdo trans like my Navi's ZF. What a pain in the rear.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Cooler line exchange is easy and effective, but you still need to get that filter out once in a while.

The first miles are far more important as most debris is generated when relatively new...

 

[ET16]

Originally Posted By: zach1900
Just get some Pennzoil full synthetic, under $5 a quart (silver bottle) it's even got Toyota A-W JWS 3309 approval, though can be hard to find, I got mine at Big R, Menards carries a clone in the quaker state bottle,s name fluid and specs and slightly cheaper without the thin-ness of Maxlife.


I like this fluid, too. It is better than Maxlife in my 05 Saab (smoother shifting).

 

[Gannet167]

No Pennzoil in my area, although it's probably the same product as the shell.

 

[ET16]

Yes, I think it's Spirax S5.

 

[Mrsandman]

Maybe take a trip to the US and stock up on atf oil and filters.

 

[Greasymechtech]

I'd use the Amsoil.
What remote filter?

I prefer full visc ATF's unless on a quest for MPG.
The SOPUS full synth fluids, Valvoline Import, Red D4, RP... and Amsoil are all great choices.

 

[BrianF]

I used the Amsoil LV fluid in my TB. Why? My brother gave me 12 quarts for free. It works fine and I wanted a good syn fluid as like most people in Sask: I drive on really cold days and prefer a fluid that flows better when cold. Simple as that. If I had to pay for it I would look at the Maxlife or look at a Petrocan fluid.

 

[Gannet167]

PetroCan's DuraDrive was actually top of my list until I realized Peavey Mart carries Amsoil. But you can't buy PetroCanada's products anywhere in Canada. I contacted them and they didn't respond to my emails and the local distributors said they don't carry it.

I'd gladly take a trip to the US to stock up on oil, except it'd be more expensive once I paid the exchange rate and tax to bring it across the border.