Crazy OCI using Honda maintenance minder

[dlayman]

I have a 2015 Honda Civic LX. I know it is often suggested to leave the factory oil in for a full normal OCI, particularly with Honda. I drive about 75% highway, and reasonably conservatively, but I traverse two mountains everyday. I got to about 6000 miles and the oil life finally dropped from 80% to 70%, meaning it had 70% of its life left. The manual recommends changing it between 0 and 15% left.

I'm not sure if the monitor is linear or not, but it seems to be. So the oil loses 30% of its life over 6000 miles, this would mean leaving the factory 0W-20 in for 18,000 miles to get to 10% oil life! Also, Honda recommends a filter change only every other oil change, and to not change it on the first oil change. This would mean leaving the factory filter on for 36,000 miles! This sounds ridiculous and I would never do it. At 6000 miles I scheduled an oil and filter change with Honda dealer. I had to practically fight with them to do it, even more so with the filter. They did do it however and reset the monitor. I never heard of a dealership not wanting to take your money.

I've now driven another 6000 miles and the reading again just dropped from 80 to 70%. This time I bought a Honda OEM filter (wow, is it small) and got the oil changed at an independent shop. (I have bad knee arthritis and this car is a real PITA to change the oil and filter.) This time I didn't reset the oil life monitor and I'll see how many miles it takes to get to 15% life, then probably take it to dealer again for oil and filter change, as they are quite reasonable with the prices and they shouldn't fight me since this time the monitor will say to change the filter.

But this oil life monitor seems extremely optimistic. I'm not going to rely on it and probably settle into these 6000 mile changes, alternating between indy and dealer. This way I will satisfy Honda by getting an oil and filter change at each time the monitor tells me to, but also doing one in between for my own peace of mine. Once out of warranty I'll probably move to a 7500 mile OCI, which should be fine with the 0W20, which is whatt I've done with my 05 Civic, which uses 5W20 dino, and is coming up on 300k and running great and not burning any oil.

But WHY is that monitor telling me to go so many miles, especially with an only every other change on the filter? This HAS to be a case of the manufacturer trying to keep cost of ownership figures low. Nobody can convince me the little OEM Fram made filter is good for the first 36,000 miles of life of the engine, which holds 3.9 liters.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Your Civic has a small 1.8L engine (R18 series) which has proven to be extremely easy on oil, and more frequent changes, especially with your driving environment of 75% highway, just aren't required. You can easily do 10k mile oil changes. That would make it pretty easy to track -- keep them on 10k mile increments on the odometer, and you never have to think back to when you last changed it.

I'm a fan of not changing the oil filter more often than required, but I would agree that 36,000 miles is awfully long on one filter. The Honeywell-constructed Honda filters are awfully durable, but that's a long time. I'd personally, in your case, run 10k mile oil changes with a Fram TG7317 (Tough Guard) changed every time, or a Fram XG7317 (Ultra) changed every other time. Like the Honda-branded filter, both of these have pliable silicone anti-drainback valves. The Ultra has a wire mesh-backed filter media that has proven itself to be extremely durable. Browse through the Oil Filter subforum on here to see pictures of the Ultra cut open. It's a 20k mile filter on a little R18 Honda.

 

[Chris Meutsch]

I will be doing a UOA on Starfire 0w20 on my Pilot after probably about 6,200 miles before the MM goes to 10%. I am curious to know if I could run longer now that's out of warranty.

 

[dlayman]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Your Civic has a small 1.8L engine (R18 series) which has proven to be extremely easy on oil, and more frequent changes, especially with your driving environment of 75% highway, just aren't required. You can easily do 10k mile oil changes. That would make it pretty easy to track -- keep them on 10k mile increments on the odometer, and you never have to think back to when you last changed it.

I'm a fan of not changing the oil filter more often than required, but I would agree that 36,000 miles is awfully long on one filter. The Honeywell-constructed Honda filters are awfully durable, but that's a long time. I'd personally, in your case, run 10k mile oil changes with a Fram TG7317 (Tough Guard) changed every time, or a Fram XG7317 (Ultra) changed every other time. Like the Honda-branded filter, both of these have pliable silicone anti-drainback valves. The Ultra has a wire mesh-backed filter media that has proven itself to be extremely durable. Browse through the Oil Filter subforum on here to see pictures of the Ultra cut open. It's a 20k mile filter on a little R18 Honda.


Yes, you are probably correct that I could go to 10k oil changes and perhaps 20 on the filter (although the filter makes me a little nervous as the construction sometimes changes with no notice or visible change in appearance - like Purolator). But even that is nearly twice as often as what the maintenance minder is telling me. It must have a lot to do with my driving habits, as other Civic owners don't seem to be getting such crazy intervals, from what I've read. Thanks for your suggestions on the filter and OCI.

 

[Nate1979]

Do you do really long highway driving? Is this only during the summer months?

 

[Bottom_Feeder]

Not sure if you posted it already and I can't see it, but how long did it take you to get to 6000 miles? And mountains aside, what's your daily commute like?

According to the OLM in my 2015 Accord, highway driving must be REAL easy on an engine and its oil. It took 7+ months of commuting to get to 6k miles and 20% on the OLM. I changed it slightly early due to an upcoming 2k mile road trip. That 2k miles only dropped the OLM to 90%. So that means I can go 20k miles on a OCI if it's ALL highway? Maybe, but I'm not going to do it!

 

[Phishin]

Change the factory oil now. I wouldn't go longer than 10k miles with out a UOA. Use a high quality oil filter (M1, Fram Ultra, RP, Napa Platinum, etc.) and change it every other change....these filters can go 20k miles.

 

[Jetronic]

22k miles is the oci for my car aswell, unless I happen to have a lot more dpf regens than standard.

I change the oil every 11k though, and the filter every 22k.

20k doesn't seem that long to me, but I wouldn't do it on just any oil...

 

[OneEyeJack]

These OLM's are interesting but what if they are wrong and you end up damaging the engine. How would you know soon enough to correct the problem?

 

[4wheeldog]

I changed the oil in my son's Fit when I visited him. It had 36k on it, and the oil that came out looked just fine, to me.

After changing both the oil and the filter (Mobil 1 0W/20 EP, Fram Ultra) he informed me that this was the car's second oil change......Ever! The filter change every other OCI must have been the case, because the filter was tightened to about 1000 ft lbs......MUST have been from the factory!

 

[dlayman]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Do you do really long highway driving? Is this only during the summer months?



I do have a long daily commute. Its about 50 miles each way, nearly all highway, but with two fairly steep mountains, and some construction and trucks that can really slow you down. I mostly travel about 60 mph (speed limits is mostly 55, a little 65). I also do a 10 mile trip at lunchtime to the gym, which can be a lot of stop and go. So far I have only owned the car since late spring, so I don't know what effect colder temps will have. Haven't taken any long trips with it.

 

[dlayman]

Originally Posted By: Phishin
Change the factory oil now. I wouldn't go longer than 10k miles with out a UOA. Use a high quality oil filter (M1, Fram Ultra, RP, Napa Platinum, etc.) and change it every other change....these filters can go 20k miles.


Factory oil and filter was changed at 6000 miles (despite being at 70% life, according to OLM). Second change was done at 12k miles. Both changes included OEM Honda filter. I just found it astounding that the monitor would likely have told me to go 36000 miles on factory filter - surely there would be some break in material in the oil, and I can't imagine the filter not becoming saturated by that point.

 

[racer12306]

For comparison:

2007 Impala 3.5, quite archaic compared to your 2015 Honda.

Went over 9000 miles on my indy shops bulk conventional 5w30 oil and returned a very nice UOA.

When I drive to the office my drive is 90% highway and 55 miles each way. When I drive a trip it is heavily highway unless I'm in a certain town for a few visits, so we both have about as ideal of a driving scenario as possible and as realistic.

Get it broke in, I'm a fan of changing early to clean out, then let it run to 50%, sample it and take it to 10% and sample it. You at least get an idea of what's going on and I think you would be quite surprised. Also, your drive is very consistent that helps in planning.

 

[dlayman]

Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
I changed the oil in my son's Fit when I visited him. It had 36k on it, and the oil that came out looked just fine, to me.

After changing both the oil and the filter (Mobil 1 0W/20 EP, Fram Ultra) he informed me that this was the car's second oil change......Ever! The filter change every other OCI must have been the case, because the filter was tightened to about 1000 ft lbs......MUST have been from the factory!


Hmm,sounds right in line with what my civic was calling for. 36k on a factory filter just seems crazy. It would be really interesting to have one of these that went that long cut open to see how it held up.

 

[dlayman]

Originally Posted By: racer12306
For comparison:

2007 Impala 3.5, quite archaic compared to your 2015 Honda.

Went over 9000 miles on my indy shops bulk conventional 5w30 oil and returned a very nice UOA.

When I drive to the office my drive is 90% highway and 55 miles each way. When I drive a trip it is heavily highway unless I'm in a certain town for a few visits, so we both have about as ideal of a driving scenario as possible and as realistic.

Get it broke in, I'm a fan of changing early to clean out, then let it run to 50%, sample it and take it to 10% and sample it. You at least get an idea of what's going on and I think you would be quite surprised. Also, your drive is very consistent that helps in planning.


Our driving logistics seem very similar. I've done 7500 mile OCI's on valvoline bulk for my 05 Civic's lifetime and its to nearly 300k with no problems or consumption. Honda really stresses not to change factory fill early, so I waited until about 6000 miles - similar to what I did with the '05. Some people probably think way too long, others (including Honda apparently) way too soon. But letting it go to 18k and 36k for the factory fill and filter seems wildly optimistic, but I'm not a Honda engineer.

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: dlayman
But letting it go to 18k and 36k for the factory fill and filter seems wildly optimistic, but I'm not a Honda engineer.


There you go.

By saying "seems", you're saying that you really don't know. Instead of supposition, why don't you verify the likely already accurate factory findings (OLM and their recommendation to change the filter every other time) with a couple of UOAs and filter dissections?


I can say that that after having done a few of my own UOAs, I can say that I'm confident in going the factory recommended OCI in our cars, and after having opened up the filters and seeing nothing of consequence, even after 2 OCIs, I have zero issues running a filter to AT LEAST 15k miles. Yes, I know you're estimating more, but I bet you'll find no issues if you open it up.

 

[user52165]

I maintain a 2007 Civic LX for my daughter. If I went by the OLM it would be a year or more between changes. I do it every 6 months and here is why: I get to inspect under the car and under the hood. I can check for leaks, exhaust system, filters, undercarriage scrapes, all fluid levels, axle and rack and pinion boots, etc. Folks that go with long intervals tend to forget about these things and then wonder why something goes wrong.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: user52165
I maintain a 2007 Civic LX for my daughter. If I went by the OLM it would be a year or more between changes. I do it every 6 months and here is why: I get to inspect under the car and under the hood. I can check for leaks, exhaust system, filters, undercarriage scrapes, all fluid levels, axle and rack and pinion boots, etc. Folks that go with long intervals tend to forget about these things and then wonder why something goes wrong.


In theory you can check all those things without changing the oil. But if you're like me, you either do both or skip it all until the next time around.

Honda still recommends regular dealer service visits even if an oil change isn't on the agenda. Primarily they rotate the tires and do all the safety and fluid level checks. The assumption is that once out of warranty, if you decide to do oil changes yourself, or wait, you are still responsible for doing all the safety checks and tire rotations.

 

[dlayman]

Originally Posted By: HangFire
Originally Posted By: user52165
I maintain a 2007 Civic LX for my daughter. If I went by the OLM it would be a year or more between changes. I do it every 6 months and here is why: I get to inspect under the car and under the hood. I can check for leaks, exhaust system, filters, undercarriage scrapes, all fluid levels, axle and rack and pinion boots, etc. Folks that go with long intervals tend to forget about these things and then wonder why something goes wrong.


In theory you can check all those things without changing the oil. But if you're like me, you either do both or skip it all until the next time around.

Honda still recommends regular dealer service visits even if an oil change isn't on the agenda. Primarily they rotate the tires and do all the safety and fluid level checks. The assumption is that once out of warranty, if you decide to do oil changes yourself, or wait, you are still responsible for doing all the safety checks and tire rotations.


Technically, at least with the 15 Civic, I believe they don't. Code A is change oil only. Subcode 1 appears on the same interval, which is rotate tires. Code B is oil and filter change and inspections. Subcode 1 appears again with it, to rotate the tires. There are other subcodes for other things like coolant change, MTF change, etc. But I believe all these subcodes are called for only when an oil change is also called for. They do recommend you regularly inspect your fluid levels, etc. on your own at frequent intervals. The only exceptions are brake fluid at 3 year intervals regardless of mileage and inspect idle speed at 160,000 miles. But the actual intervals of all the other services are coincide with an oil change. The little wrench that tells you service is due comes on at 15% oil life. None of the subcodes can trigger that. The DEALER may have specified separate service intervals at specified miles, but Honda only expects dealer visits at oil change intervals and other items are taken care at that time.

I wish they'd just go back to printing a service schedule in the manual.

 

[philipp10]

Originally Posted By: user52165
I maintain a 2007 Civic LX for my daughter. If I went by the OLM it would be a year or more between changes. I do it every 6 months and here is why: I get to inspect under the car and under the hood. I can check for leaks, exhaust system, filters, undercarriage scrapes, all fluid levels, axle and rack and pinion boots, etc. Folks that go with long intervals tend to forget about these things and then wonder why something goes wrong.


Well whether you are changing the oil or not you should be lifting the hood every 3 months to check the oil anyway. I myself have faith that Honda knew what they were doing with the MM. Having said that, I am changing when it hits around 20% life and will probably be leaving the filter in every other change (thats a tough one to get past though).