Sad Kohler story

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We all know that none of the engines of today are anywhere close to the older models. I miss the old K series Kohlers, and Briggs Vanguards, but times change. I've heard, and seen, a lot of bad things about the new Kohler Courage series, to the point that, I wouldn't say I won't own one, but they wouldn't be my first choice. My neighbor has a Husqvarna tractor, one of the Lowe's specials with a Courage 26hp in it. It runs pretty good, but has had some minor problems.. Then one day he changed the oil and everything went wrong. You see, my neighbor is 6'6" and 350+ pounds and doesn't understand his strength. He tightens everything way, waaaaaaaaay beyond their limits, which over the years, has caused him many problems. But this time, it cost him around $800 and many hours of work. He tightened the oil filter on the Kohler too tight. Inside the new Kohlers are two oil pipes, one going into the filter and one going out. The center pipe for the oil filter is plain old iron pipe, and the oil filter mount simply threads onto the pipe, and butts agains a raised aluminum molded boss on the block. The other pipe, inside the engine is plastic, and obviously off center. He tightened the filter so hard, that he unknowingly broke the boss off the block, and twisted the plastic pipe inside til it broke, hence no oil flow. If you're like me, it's this kind of design, that makes Kohler no longer my first choice in engines. But, would you believe they're not as bad as you think? He was able to mow, FOR WEEKS, with almost zero oil flow, and no overheating, and he mows close to 2 acres of hilly ground. Now get the picture, a tractor with little or now oil flow, because the oil pick up line is broken and the oil pump is sucking air, mowing tall grass carrying a 300+ pound man, in hot summer weather and it took probably a month or more to blow up. So, I've got to say, they can't be all bad. When it did go, the cam looked ok, but the crank bearing surfaces were gone, and I do mean gone. The block was toasted at the crank bearing surfaces too. We bought a new short block and put it back together, and it's now happily running along.

The moral of the story is, that these new engines may not be as robust as in the past, that's for sure. Economy of manufacture has made them to be just as cost effective as can barely get by and still do their job, and then only if taken very good care of. But properly cared for and a bit of common sense, and they will do their job. I'm still not a fan of plastic cams and I'd love to see the return of, at least, cast iron sleeves, if not blocks, but they're gone, and they're not coming back, but the new engines aren't quite as bad as we make them out to be. I'll still take and old K series, or even a magnum, over what's out there today, but no such luck.
 
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Let me see if I understand you. Your neighbor goes Cro-Magnon man on the oil filter, runs the mower with no oil pressure for a month before it finally lets go and you see an engine problem? Really? How long did you EXPECT the engine to last under those conditions?
 
Well I'm sure glad you posted this, cause I will be changing the oil and filter in a 15 hp courage soon for the first time. Do these filters only go hand tight? I know people say to never use a wrench on a filter, but my experience while working on heavy equipment was that if you didn't snug it up, vibration will back in off and start a leak that 99% of people will never see until the equipment suddenly shuts down unexpectedly. I believe the kohler commands have an all metal filter housing, which makes far more sense to me.
 
I hate people that over tighten stuff. Is it just because they are idiots? I have worked on things (radar systems) that were put together by gorilla type people and have found that they basically destroy all the fasteners. Just last week I had to tear down a radar array and was having to use a 2' cheater bar on a breaker bar. And this was on bolts that only needed 40 ft lbs of torque.
 
Originally Posted By: AITG
Let me see if I understand you. Your neighbor goes Cro-Magnon man on the oil filter, runs the mower with no oil pressure for a month before it finally lets go and you see an engine problem? Really? How long did you EXPECT the engine to last under those conditions?
"The engines of today are nowhere close to the old models" .... Huh? Perhaps true if you are a breaker bar on the old pan bolt type. I guess he means some thing like that. Too bad they don't make Model Ts any more, eh?
 
Originally Posted By: satinsilver
I'd be more concerned about his weight. That will catch up to him.
Under the "new system" we'll ALL pay for it.
 
Originally Posted By: Blkstanger
I hate people that over tighten stuff. Is it just because they are idiots? I have worked on things (radar systems) that were put together by gorilla type people and have found that they basically destroy all the fasteners. Just last week I had to tear down a radar array and was having to use a 2' cheater bar on a breaker bar. And this was on bolts that only needed 40 ft lbs of torque.
ALl it takes is a halfwit with a rattle gun to make a mess.
 
Originally Posted By: AITG
Let me see if I understand you. Your neighbor goes Cro-Magnon man on the oil filter, runs the mower with no oil pressure for a month before it finally lets go and you see an engine problem? Really? How long did you EXPECT the engine to last under those conditions?
ANd in a month that engine made NNO sound indicating it was running dry. Fat AND deaf ... but engines are not what they used to be.
 
Yes, so your friend fails to properly tighten the oil filter, it results in damage, and it's the fault of Kohler? Really?

THIS X ELEVENTY BILLION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Originally Posted By: Blkstanger
I hate people that over tighten stuff. Is it just because they are idiots? I have worked on things (radar systems) that were put together by gorilla type people and have found that they basically destroy all the fasteners. Just last week I had to tear down a radar array and was having to use a 2' cheater bar on a breaker bar. And this was on bolts that only needed 40 ft lbs of torque.


I do think they are stupid and half wits too!
mad.gif
 
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I once had a boss who was selling a box with legs, and containing a half-rack of equipment. I reported to him the legs wouldn't screw on correctly. When I took him over to show him the legs wouldn't thread into the threaded bar, he went ape on them. The sound of stainless nut on stainless threaded bar was awful, the galling horrible. Of course, good luck getting them back apart before shipping the thing, which was new. He finally gave up on the 3rd leg.

Some people have no mechanical aptitude.
 
I think a 1/4 past hand tight is good for filters , drain plugs, plugs, etc. Even less for left handed nuts. The vibration and heat seems to tighten it further.
 
Kohler's are not the engine they once were for sure. I bought a new Kubota lawn tractor in 2008. It gets about 110 hours per year put on it. Kubota uses the better series of the engine line I might add, but 3 years ago the engine failed, I took it to the dealer and it was a worn out cam. The engine was broken in properly and I used the rated oil and synthetic at that, all as Kohler calls for. The mechanic who did the work, I knew this guy, he said they had changed the P\N of the cam and that it was likely an improperly treated or tempered cam in my original engine, they had a problem with that. Other than a new carb put on last year, the engine has been OK and it performs great and is smooth. About $800 repairs for about 880 or so hours of mowing on a $3000 mower. The Kubota built parts and transmission are built heavy though.
 
I just bought a lightly used Craftsman tractor that just happens to sport a Kohler courage engine and this story actually reinforces my preference for Kohler over Briggs & Stratton engines.

This engine ran for weekly mowings for nearly a month starved for oil before it grenaded? I'll take that engine every time.

Always oil the filter gasket and NEVER more than hand tight.
 
Over 3 years ago, I was in the market for a zero turn mower. I choose the Ariens Zoom XL mower, because it had all the features I wanted for the price. Talking around to different unbiased small gas engine mechanics most mentioned the Kohler Courage as not being a very good engine. But that what the Ariens had. So I found its cousin, the Gravely ZT XL had the FR series Kawasaki engines and thats what I bought. Like it.
 
If you have a choice of engines, go Japanese all the way.

Many years ago, out at camp, a couple boy-apes each had little Honda 50 minibikes. They flogged those things mercilessly all day long. The only time they stopped was when they'd run out of gas.

One day they dropped by my garage for some sort of minor repair. I recall there was no oil showing on the site glass or dipstick, I can't recall which it had. The spark plug holes were stripped, air filters were missing and the bikes were pretty much rolling wrecks. From that day on, I had full appreciation of how tough Japanese engines are.
 
The Honda gx engines are as good today as they were 20 years ago. I have 16 5.5hp 160cc gx engines running air compressors and from my experience they are bulletproof.
So not all engines are worse now.
However the perception of lower quality is correct only because today there are tiers of quality and sadly the top quality stuff hasn't changed. It's still top quality however the lower tiered stuff is just that. Lower tier.
To make stuff cheaper lesser quality components get used. Buy a top tier product and you'll see it lasts forever.
Bubba time proved to me that Honda still has their top quality stuff however they've expanded their lesser quality lines,and people don't look so all they see is a good brand name not knowing it's a lesser tier product,then complain that the quality has suffered.
Well no it hasn't. You just bought the garbage line of product.
 
No, wait, let ME understand. Where in the post did I blame Kohler for the failure. I actually was promoting the fact that it lasted longer than any reasonable person could have ever expected!

Secondly, yes, he was wrong and should use more care, but, I will say, if any of his neighbors had a need, I don't care what that need was, he'd be right there trying to help any way he could. I know, I've lived here over 30 years. To cheer for someone's misfortune, even if it is his own fault is a bit more than I can do. I've been aggravated at him for doing this now and then, but I sure don't wish him to have problems, guess it's just me.

My point with Kohler is that the designs are not maximum durability anymore, they're minimum cost. They do their job, but they need all the care they can get.
 
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