Inconsistent Lug Nut Torque from Shop!

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Leo99
How much variability would you consider "inconsistent"? +/- 1 ft-lb, 5 ft-lbs, 10? My lug nut spec is 76 ft-lbs. I just zip them on with my impact wrench for 3 seconds per lug after they snug. I'm guessing it's about 80 to 90ft-lbs.

If I checked, I'm sure they are +/- 5ft-lbs but what does it matter?


Right.

And +/- 5 lb-ft within what?

 

[Brybo86]

Originally Posted By: Turk
HEY! STOP!!! You were on that lugnut too long!!!!!" BACK OFF THAT LUGNUT. NOW!

I think I'm done posting here.


Turk don't get your panties in a twist, thanks for the post
I go to DT often and they always use a torque wrench
I can't say I recall them using an impact to install lug nuts, only to remove.

 

[OneEyeJack]

Now you know that if someone else works on your vehicle you check the work when you get home as in check the lug nuts and tire pressures in the case of the tire store. And if you rotating tires check that it really happened and in the right order of rotation.

 

[Traction]

Torque wrench is the only way. It all comes down to clamping force, and stretch. Any other method is just a guess. Torque sticks do not give you the feedback you get from torqueing by hand. I always come back to the first lug nut, and if it moves, I go around again, sometimes twice. Also, I always do all 4 wheels starting on the left rear, clockwise around the car to the right rear every time. That way I don't forget one, if distracted. When I get to the RR I know I'm done. Otherwise 1 phone call, or whatever is all it takes to forget.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: Turk
I bet the person kept the Impact Wrench on WAY TOO LONG on 2 of them.
Then, when they go back with a Torque Wrench, they were already over-tightened.

A Torque Wrench does nothing if they're already over the torque setting!!



I worked a tire shop for a few months and this was the general SOP for my coworkers. They'd gun 'em on, click with a torque wrench, have it NOT ROTATE, and call it good. Worse, one of them declared that small cars got 80 ft lbs (one colored, precalibrated wrench), large cars got 100, and trucks got 125. Despite there being a laminated chart.

But having owned a bunch of saturns, they get to an age where the studs just give up on life. They're very grabby, meaning massive torque is needed, and snap like they're made of chalk. I've done all my own maintenance and had summer/ winter changeovers where I've busted three studs on four corners. Flame suit on, I'd put a little antisieze on yours.

Good on you for keeping the drums in a state where they come off. That's the next thing to rust up.

 

[ronbo]

As other mentioned I check/re torque my lug nuts. Also check my tire air pressure. Years ago buying new tires the car drove strange. Found that one front tire had 11 lbs more air then the other. The next time I went to that shop they got better only a 6 lb difference.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

I HATE when shops overtorque lug nuts!

The only places I know of that do it correctly are Walmart and Discount Tire.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: Turk
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Corrosion can play into this substantially.

All threads look good; that wasn't it. They were MASSIVELY over-torqued!
Just rotated & balanced 2 weeks ago!

If the threads are not buttressed, then it's not massively overtorqued. Just overtorqued.

 

[Leo99]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Leo99
How much variability would you consider "inconsistent"? +/- 1 ft-lb, 5 ft-lbs, 10? My lug nut spec is 76 ft-lbs. I just zip them on with my impact wrench for 3 seconds per lug after they snug. I'm guessing it's about 80 to 90ft-lbs.

If I checked, I'm sure they are +/- 5ft-lbs but what does it matter?


Right.

And +/- 5 lb-ft within what?


Who knows. What does it matter if they vary between 80 and 100 ft-lbs? As long as the wheel stays on, the lug nuts don't deform anything and the lug nuts will come off when needed, it's all good. There are millions of cars on the road happily motoring along like this. Mine are some of them.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Turk
I bet the person kept the Impact Wrench on WAY TOO LONG on 2 of them.
Then, when they go back with a Torque Wrench, they were already over-tightened.

A Torque Wrench does nothing if they're already over the torque setting!!


DT uses torque stick extensions. I use these quite often myself-- and have found that the lugs are not always tightened evenly. The torque sticks with a built-in socket are much more consistent and accurate.

It is quite possible that they hammered on some of the lug nuts longer than the others. DT did a re-balance on my GF's car last week and the wheel lock sockets were quite a bit looser than the others.

 

[B20z]

Originally Posted By: Leo99
Who knows. What does it matter if they vary between 80 and 100 ft-lbs? As long as the wheel stays on, the lug nuts don't deform anything and the lug nuts will come off when needed, it's all good. There are millions of cars on the road happily motoring along like this. Mine are some of them.


That's just it. If the car calls for 80ft/lbs and they put them on at 100ft/lbs there could indeed be complications. Maybe you can't get one off with the short OEM tireiron by the side of the road. Maybe a lug nut gets deformed. Maybe the bolts/nuts don't last for as many R&Rs long now. Who knows.

It's about attention to detail. Shops that impact wrench the lug nuts on full are probably more likely to crossthread them too, or to forget other details. If you pay for service it should be competent. Just because we've all gotten used to mediocrity doesn't make it OK. The only reason I have to deal with this garbage at all is inspections.

 

[Rhymingmechanic]

When one of my vehicles needs the wheels removed, I take off the wheel covers at home, ask to have the wheels hand-torqued and tell them the spec, and then loosen and re-torque when I get home. If I can't go directly home I'll take the torque wrench with me and do it in a parking lot.

So far, this has prevented damage to studs, brakes, and the little plastic nuts that hold wheel covers on. It's somebody's job to do it right, but I know it's right after I check.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: Turk

Does anyone else run into inconsistent Lug Nut torque from a shop (if you ever check)??

It takes a couple minutes to double check the work. Since it's rare for a minimum wage tire shop worker to really care, common sense would have told you to check it when you returned home.

Or you could choose to go to a boutique shop that pays their employees extremely well, and makes them spend all the time it takes to do those little details. But then we'd see a post from you complaining about the high price of your tire rotation and balance and how they were ripping you off.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: Turk

Does anyone else run into inconsistent Lug Nut torque from a shop (if you ever check)??

It takes a couple minutes to double check the work. Since it's rare for a minimum wage tire shop worker to really care, common sense would have told you to check it when you returned home.


I would fault the flat rate system more than the minimum wage system. Even if you paid the employees more (and I made substantially more even right off the street) they'd hurry through to get to the next car waiting.

If you want good service from a tire shop, or really any mechanic, go when they're not busy, so they aren't rushing you out to get the next guy in. And leave the car for the day so they can poke away at it.

A customer could be all confrontational at the service desk, making the tech retorque before their eyes, etc, but it punishes the wrong people. Once they leave, everyone will make fun of them for being a peckerhead. The boss will chastise the offending tech for getting caught, but then everyone will move on, as the odds of being busted by the customer are around 5%.

And you should check both air pressure and torque the next morning. Torque because of aluminum wheel seating and pressure because "shop air" isn't the same temp as outside air, and you gain or lose a pound every ten degrees. If there was junk on your bead seating surface and you lose air on your new tires, the shop should make it right, but you need to catch it quickly.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Leo99
Who knows. What does it matter if they vary between 80 and 100 ft-lbs? As long as the wheel stays on, the lug nuts don't deform anything and the lug nuts will come off when needed, it's all good. There are millions of cars on the road happily motoring along like this. Mine are some of them.


Somehow I don't think 80-100 is "+/- 5" like you first said.

And how do you know it varies between 80 and 100? Why not 120 and 200? You got a torque air wench?

 

[GiveMeAVowel]

Originally Posted By: B20z
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
What do you expect from a $10 an hour tire tech ???


Their rate of pay is irrelevant. Like others, I expect them to perform the tasks for which they are compensated. A lot of these shops proudly boast that they torque-to-spec and print the spec for the vehicle right on the w/o. And yet, I also have never had my tires properly torqued. Ever. I bring a wrench and redo it properly in the parking lot, and then again in 50mi.


Yes, exactly . If you are being paid to do a job, you are being paid to do it correctly. If you don't want to do it correctly you should be fired. It's disgusting that today people find it "acceptable" for a person to do a half arse job, at whatever it is when they are being paid to do the job. Period.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Turk
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Corrosion can play into this substantially.


All threads look good; that wasn't it. They were MASSIVELY over-torqued!
Just rotated & balanced 2 weeks ago!

Yeah but its not the threads, it can be the seat where the lug touches the wheel too...