Sludge Monster advice

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I recently started maintaining a 1998 Toyota Avalon (officially recognized as a slude producer) and under the cap its dark black everywhere but has been that way for years. It has survived on the local shops bulk dino oil at no more than 3k oci for the last 10 years. With that said im a little afraid to jump in with something like PP or M1HM and risk upsetting things too much. What does everyone think of PYB and Mobil Super? Its hard to pass over the Mobil as my grandfather made his living as a captain for Mobil shipping oil across the pond in WWII so I have a soft spot for Mobil even if that sounds crazy. I just notice all this marketing where Pennzoil says they clean better than anyone and that's hard to overlook. I also learned of my 2005 Honda Odyssey needing more frequent OCIs due to similar issues and I recently switched from VWB to PP in it and when I did oil consumption doubled not enough to freak me out but enough to have to add a qt every 4k probably just switching chemistry up its the first OC with it. Any general ideas on how well Mobil 1 or Mobil Super cleans compared to Pennzoil products would be helpful as cleaning is my big priority. I really don't want to jump into specialty cleaning products and procedures it just makes me nervous.
 
If it's survived on bulk dino for 10 years, why change anything? Will it be driven a lot that you want to extend the OCI beyond 3000 miles?
 
I don't know why people seem to think that PP or other high detergent syns are going to do some immediate and massive cleaning?- as if they were some kind of harsh chemical flush.

Are you sure you're not looking in at a baffle in the valve cover? Pull it off and take a look around- it probably needs the gasket replaced anyway. If it's bad, manually clean it. If it's just some heavy varnish, leave it be and run whatever oil you want for whatever reasonable oci you like.
 
I just notice Mobil says if switching a high mileage car to Mobil 1 HM run 3 short OCI due to the grime that is likely to be washed away by the higher cleaning power of that oil. Also when Pennzoil says that 1 oil keeps pistons 60% cleaner or whatever you cant deny there is some sort of extra cleaning going on. Not saying its going to be night and day but I do believe there is some truth to the cleaning claims. The_Eric good point about a baffle now that I think of it that might be the case as the dipstick is clean as a whistle. Perhaps I am over thinking it and need to stick with dino oil on the Avalon wouldn't want it to die with more money in the sump than its worth LOL.... As for the Odyssey it needs to run for a long time to come and the VTech actuators are notorious for clogging with light sludge in that v6 design so I guess PP it is. Just wanted to know if Calcium was the real big number to watch as far as cleaning ability is concerned. Like if I see QSGB and I see PYB have 2,000 vs 2,400 Calcium is it true to say 2,400 (higher calcium) will clean better?
 
The baffle below the fill cap in that year 1MZ-FE is coated with a black gritty coating. You cannot see anything by looking into the fill hole on this engine.

In order to tell anything, you must pull the valve cover. Of course the front one is the easiest and that is a good place to start. But the rear one will tell you more. And as has been pointed out you do need to check and clean the PCV valve.

In my opinion after having run a 1MZ-FE for well over 300,000 miles I would not use a conventional oil in that engine. With M1 being so inexpensive at Walmart there's really no reason not to use it and on a relatively short OCI (approx. 7500 miles).

My opinion.
 
Before you go too crazy with how best to clean you need to pull the valve cover and check. Looking under the cap does not give you enough information to conclude what the deal is with sludge. Even if the vehicle is know for having sludge.

If there is sludge, then PP at 5K for a few OCI should be a good regiment.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
Before you go too crazy with how best to clean you need to pull the valve cover and check. Looking under the cap does not give you enough information to conclude what the deal is with sludge. Even if the vehicle is know for having sludge.


On this engine in particular it tells you nothing.
 
More calcium is better for cleaning. I had a Dodge 2.7 sludge monster. I ran PP for 3000 mile intervals. I never thought it was too short of an interval for PP. When I was getting ready to change the oil I would add a pint of MMO. Maybe 200 miles before the change. Running strong when I sold it.
 
Under the cap looking like that is more normal than not I would say. My daughters 02 camry with same engine was sludge free under the valve covers, very clean. With that history you are safe to use any oil you want. Hers has about 150k now and uses no oil between changes. I switched it from conventional to strictly PP 5w-30 at 80k with 5k oil and filter changes since. You need no cleaners etc, now that may be fixing what ain't broke IMO.
 
if it runs, dont try anything drastic to fix the sludge. replace the pvc valve and pretend its a toyota that is 17 years old. my definition of that means: run it into the ground and worry about more important things in life.
 
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Most of the sludge issues, I was told by a dealer technician, were found in minivans with the V6 , for example, which came in at 20,000 miles with the filter installed at the factory still on the vehicle. Maintenance on the non-macho minivan was, apparently, left up to the "little lady".
 
PP or PUP, and M1 as well, are high quality oils with good cleaning ability. You will do no harm by switching other than a slightly lighter wallet.

Since there are no KNOWN issues, I would run PP (or PYB even) for as long as you feel comfortable.

Bottom line, do you feel it is going to blow up within the next 3 oil changes? PP, PUP, PYB, M1, etc are no worse than what you are using now. Make the switch and see how much life you can stretch out of them, that way you get the cleaning you are looking for, without spending much more at all. If it isn't going to blow up tomorrow, its not going to blow up with any of the listed oils.
 
Audi's unintended acceleration and 1mz-fe sludge, two internet myth's that won't die...

I have a later Lexus with this engine and I switched it to synthetic at a higher mileage after years of 3k OCI's with dino. It runs wonderfully now at 240k+. I use the factory spec'd 5w-30, Mobil 1 HM. I now run 7.5k OCIs. The slightly higher initial cost of a solid Wix filter and 5qt just of M1 at Walmart save me time and money IMO. I did the first synthetic fill with PP 5w-30 (because I had some, not other real reason) for 5k. It was darker in 500 miles than the prior dino had been at 3k.

If you have a nostalgic affection for Mobil, then the M1 5w-30HM is a great oil for that engine. Don't neglect the tranny, brakes, and PS fluids if you are trying to stay up on maintenance. These cars can last a VERY long time, and look good doing it, if you keep up on the maintenance.
 
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Originally Posted By: Oro_O
Audi's unintended acceleration and 1mz-fe sludge, two internet myth's that won't die...

I have a later Lexus with this engine and I switched it to synthetic at a higher mileage after years of 3k OCI's with dino. It runs wonderfully now at 240k+. I use the factory spec'd 5w-30, Mobil 1 HM. I now run 7.5k OCIs. The slightly higher initial cost of a solid Wix filter and 5qt just of M1 at Walmart save me time and money IMO. I did the first synthetic fill with PP 5w-30 (because I had some, not other real reason) for 5k. It was darker in 500 miles than the prior dino had been at 3k.


The issues with some 1MZ-FE engines is not a myth, I have seen it first-hand. The PVC system on the earlier engines is poorly designed and the head temperature (especially in the rear bank) is very high. Later 1MZ-FE engines had modifications to address the issues plus a lower recommended OCI from Toyota.

The one affected engine I saw was short-tripped in cold weather with long OCIs on bulk dino. Even from the affected years, not all 1MZ-FE engines were equally susceptible.

Just because you have a later, unaffected 1MZ-FE that doesn't mean the issue was a myth. Way over-hyped yes, but not a myth.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Oro_O
Audi's unintended acceleration and 1mz-fe sludge, two internet myth's that won't die...

I have a later Lexus with this engine and I switched it to synthetic at a higher mileage after years of 3k OCI's with dino. It runs wonderfully now at 240k+. I use the factory spec'd 5w-30, Mobil 1 HM. I now run 7.5k OCIs. The slightly higher initial cost of a solid Wix filter and 5qt just of M1 at Walmart save me time and money IMO. I did the first synthetic fill with PP 5w-30 (because I had some, not other real reason) for 5k. It was darker in 500 miles than the prior dino had been at 3k.


The issues with some 1MZ-FE engines is not a myth, I have seen it first-hand. The PVC system on the earlier engines is poorly designed and the head temperature (especially in the rear bank) is very high. Later 1MZ-FE engines had modifications to address the issues plus a lower recommended OCI from Toyota.

The one affected engine I saw was short-tripped in cold weather with long OCIs on bulk dino. Even from the affected years, not all 1MZ-FE engines were equally susceptible.

Just because you have a later, unaffected 1MZ-FE that doesn't mean the issue was a myth. Way over-hyped yes, but not a myth.



agreed ^^
 
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No need to obsess. M1 for 3 short OCIs of 3-4000, then 7500 after that; verify that the 7500 is good to go in this engine with a UOA and no worries.
 
My sister runs her 1999 Avalon on Castro full synthetic, changes the oil and filter every 6,000 miles and her engine with 185,000 runs and sounds wonderful. But when I pull off the oil cap and look in it looks somewhat cruddy. Inside under the valve covers it is pretty good though, we replaced the valve cover gaskets last month.
I wouldn't worry about it.
 
What oil was used in that engine from the local shops. A lot of local places that have those $20 oil changes use the CHEAPEST oil available.

Mobil Super 5000 is a good conventional and a 5 qt jug at Walmart is less than $13.

Run a couple of 1500 mile oil changes with that oil and a Fram orange filter changing the filter each time. The engine should be nice and clean after that.

You could then run Mobil 1 at 6K OCIs after that using a Fram Ultra filter.
 
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