F1 - 2015 Belgian Grand Prix

[gofast182]

F1 2015 BELGIAN GRAND PRIX

US TV SCHEDULE:
Practice, Friday August 21st, 8:00AM EST , NBCSN
Qualifying, Saturday August 22nd, 12:30PM, NBCSN
Race, Sunday August 23rd, 7:30AM EST , NBCSN

2014 (V6 TURBO ERA ) RESULTS:
Race stats.
Laps: 44
Pole: Nico Rosberg, Mercedes
Fast race lap: 1:50.511
Podium
1. Daniel Ricciardo, Red Bull-Renault
2. Nico Rosberg, Mercedes
3. Valtteri Bottas, Williams-Mercedes

CURRENT STANDINGS:
Drivers
Lewis Hamilton, 202
Nico Rosberg, 181 (-21)
Sebastian Vettel, 160 (-42)
Constructors
Mercedes, 383
Ferrari, 236 (-147)
Williams, 151 (-232)

For more check out my full post on TOV Motorsports

 

[Noobie]

Most motor sports nowadays are pure [censored] and boring. Almost all of them. They are too regulated. Mandatory chassis, engine, transmission, fuel, design, electronics . . . What the heck is going on. I used to be a fan of F1 until they started with insane aero and engine regulations and then i lost interest. (Im young, so i dont know how it was pre 2000s)

Same with other motor sports, you cant innovate anymore. Its too boring and without real freedom for innovation they lack excitement IMO.
Real, physical sports are way better.

 

[Garak]

They certainly have to innovate. We may not like all that they've done, but they foisted one heck of a lot of innovation upon themselves in a very short period of time. Sure, a lot of it is Rube-Goldberg in design, but it's still innovation.

And you can't innovate in physical sports unless you want to get caught at the pee test.

I always look forward to stuff at Spa, be it F1 or any of the endurance races.

 

[billt460]

It's about time. What have they had, 2 races in the last 6 weeks?

 

[Garak]

Well, it is the summer break. I'm not looking forward to the end of November, that's for sure.

 

[OneEyeJack]

I'd still like to see a series where the teams design the cars and not the race officials.

All that's need is to have a minimum weight and a restricter plate and of course, some safety regulations. Allow any engine/transmission/drive line and any chassis layout. Then you'd see some passing and some exciting racing.

 

[Garak]

Restrictor plates and F1 just couldn't work together, in my view.

In any event, it's a careful balancing act. You open them up to do whatever the heck they want and the spending war will leave only five teams left, if we're lucky. As it stands, Ferrari added over a hundred million Euros to this year's engine budget alone a number of weeks back.

I'd sure love to see what the constructors could accomplish given a free hand. However, I don't want to see Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes, Red Bull, and Williams as the only teams left after the dust settles after a big spending war. I can't see spending caps being all that effective, particularly against Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes, and Williams, given that those teams have various affiliated yet separate entities that would be impossible to police.

And we cannot blame the officials. We cannot even blame Bernie. He told them to forget the new engines. They didn't listen. Bernie was overruled.

 

[Olas]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Restrictor plates and F1 just couldn't work together, in my view.

In any event, it's a careful balancing act. You open them up to do whatever the heck they want and the spending war will leave only five teams left, if we're lucky. As it stands, Ferrari added over a hundred million Euros to this year's engine budget alone a number of weeks back.

I'd sure love to see what the constructors could accomplish given a free hand. However, I don't want to see Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes, Red Bull, and Williams as the only teams left after the dust settles after a big spending war. I can't see spending caps being all that effective, particularly against Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes, and Williams, given that those teams have various affiliated yet separate entities that would be impossible to police.

And we cannot blame the officials. We cannot even blame Bernie. He told them to forget the new engines. They didn't listen. Bernie was overruled.


Ive thought a lot about the rules as they've changed over the years, having watched the racing pretty much my whole life, and I always come back to the same few rules;

Cars must be open top & open wheel
All teams have the same budget
All teams use the same fuel
Engineers and Drivers have free reign and unlimited rights to design and build whatever they want within their budget

In my opinion this would put the focus on engineers and drivers, and bring more variety and excitement to the field. Plus there would be an explosion in tech. advances to filter down to our road cars..

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Well, it is the summer break.


It's more like a leave of absence.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
I'd still like to see a series where the teams design the cars and not the race officials.

The teams have input on the rules, and this is what they wanted.

Originally Posted By: OneEyedJack
All that's need is to have a minimum weight and a restricter plate and of course, some safety regulations. Allow any engine/transmission/drive line and any chassis layout. Then you'd see some passing and some exciting racing.

One team would build a dominate car, and the other teams would go broke trying to catch them. Just like the current system, and people still complain.

Originally Posted By: Noobie
Same with other motor sports, you cant innovate anymore. Its too boring and without real freedom for innovation they lack excitement IMO.

If you don't think the current cars are innovative, you're not paying attention.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: Noobie
Most motor sports nowadays are pure [censored] and boring. Almost all of them. They are too regulated. Mandatory chassis, engine, transmission, fuel, design, electronics . . . What the heck is going on. I used to be a fan of F1 until they started with insane aero and engine regulations and then i lost interest. (Im young, so i dont know how it was pre 2000s)

Same with other motor sports, you cant innovate anymore. Its too boring and without real freedom for innovation they lack excitement IMO.
Real, physical sports are way better.


F1 is F1, and it's been regulated by the sanctioning body for at least 50 years. In the early 60's, they had the 1.5L formula, then they went to the 3.0L formula. Once aerodynamics came in, they regulated the innovative cars (Brabham fan car, Lotus twin-chassis) out of existence. They allowed the 3.0L NA engines to exist alongside the 1.5L turbos until the 1.5L turbos killed them in 1982. Then the horsepower war raged until the FIA put on boost restrictions, fuel capacity limits, and outlawed qualifying tires and engines. After they emasculated the 1.5 turbos, they brought on the 3.5L NA formula. Then after Senna died in 1994, they cut the displacement to 3.0L and instituted airbox pressurization limits. Also gone in this time frame were active suspensions, and driver's aids. Then once the pursuit of insane engine speeds (Cosworth had developed a 20,000 rpm engine) pushed power up to the 900HP range by 2006, they changed the formula to 2.4L V8's and instituted rev limits and engine life requirements. The current V6 turbo formula mandates a maximum fuel flow limit and fuel capacity and limits engine bore size and maximum rpm (even though nobody really approaches it that I have seen). The whole point of the current hybrid car formula is to show the public that hybrids can be race cars. But they're heavy and slower than the cars they replaced and are very complicated to work on. But they do go race distance on 30% less fuel.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
The whole point of the current hybrid car formula is to show the public that hybrids can be race cars. But they're heavy and slower than the cars they replaced and are very complicated to work on. But they do go race distance on 30% less fuel.


I like, want, and expect good fuel economy, as well as performance, in the vehicle sitting in my garage. I assume technology can and will make it possible. But I DON'T care or want to see it in the most technologically advanced race cars on the planet. To me it's like painting a multi million dollar mansion with $8.00 a gallon paint to save money.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Olas
All teams have the same budget

How do we police that? Mercedes and Ferrari can do a pile of engine R&D through the automaker divisions, not to mention loads of other R&D work. What if Williams Advanced Engineering rents wind tunnel time to Williams Grand Prix Engineering for a pound an hour? McLaren Applied Technologies could do a lot of work for McLaren Honda F1 at a very nominal fee, as could Honda itself. McLaren and Williams didn't create spinoff companies to keep accountants and lawyers employed. They know the exact advantages of doing so. Additionally, people like Sir Frank, Ron Dennis, and probably even Claire and Monisha can afford to work for no salary, should they so choose. Mercedes and Ferrari could choose to pay a pile of salaries out of their automaker divisions. Christian Horner could become a Red Bull employee, rather than a Red Bull Racing employee. Team personnel could also become hires of the sponsors.

Make a 100 million pound annual budget cap, and the big players will find ways around it, while Manor Marussia and the like won't even come close to hitting the cap anyhow. And, even more to the point, how do we envision a budget cap? If the budget cap is 100 million pounds, for example, what do we do with sponsors that we know spend at least that much? Shell cannot give a pile of money to Ferrari and must cap its advertising or advertise somewhere else? How do we make sure that everyone has the same budget available in the first place, let alone enforce that they don't exceed that?

I admit there's a problem, but I don't see a solution in either throwing down a salary cap or eliminating rules in a wholesale fashion.

billt460: I agree to a point with the fuel economy issue, but it is innovation. We already know that you can create a pile of horsepower by throwing a lot of air and fuel at an engine. That engineering problem has been long solved. I'm not thrilled with the setup they have now, of course, either. However, getting the maximum power out of the minimum amount of fuel is technological innovation. As it stands, I don't know if the solution is time and evolution of the current power units, or something else altogether.

 

[DeepFriar]

Lower viewership, already underway, will force change back to a more satisfying formula. Unless they are suicidal. And the FIA has not shown this fan that they are not.

 

[bdcardinal]

I absolutely love this track. Spa and Mount Panorama/Bathurst are my favorite and most raced on GT6. I so wish they hadn't have gotten rid of the bus-stop, it flowed a lot better than the current chicane does.

As far as the current F1 rules, they need to go back to a 2.4L V8 with no rev limits. Restrict the gearbox to aluminum or titanium casing with 7 forward gears. Bringing back refueling will save money on the wheel hub designs and arguably increase safety, the wheel-gun operators will have more time to ensure the wheel-nuts are tight while waiting for the fuel to go in.

When I watch Formula One I don't care about how the cars are hybrids and they are environmentally friendly, if I want to see hybrids race I switch over to a WEC race where it actually makes sense.

 

[billt460]

The whole concept of racing in any venue is SPEED. Slowing for SAFETY I can buy into. Not economy. For cars to run 4 to 6 seconds a lap SLOWER, then turn around and say it's a, "technological advancement", because they can do it burning 30 % less fuel is nonsensical. We're back to the $8.00 a gallon paint on the mansion. Simply not worth the bother, and defeating the purpose of racing to begin with.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: billt460
The whole concept of racing in any venue is SPEED. Slowing for SAFETY I can buy into.

That part, I certainly agree! Having things slower simply because of artificially induced economy reasons doesn't sit well with me. With the WEC, as was already mentioned, that's different. Less time refuelling in the pits obviously has a value there, regardless of rules.

But, I'd be interested to see if the cars can soon creep back up to the lap times to which we were accustomed, or if something has to change to enable that anytime in the near future. The teams were certainly well up to the challenge of dealing with less fuel. Many, including myself, expected a lot more DNFs, especially at the outset, due to running out of fuel, rather than reliability issues. They seemed to lick the fuel quantity issue in a hurry (albeit at reduced speeds). Reliability seems to be getting better. Now, the lap times must be tackled.

bdcardinal: I wonder about refueling. Even in F1, not everyone is of the same mind, for sure. I suppose I could live with it, as long as it doesn't unfairly penalize smaller teams.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: Garak
bdcardinal: I wonder about refueling. Even in F1, not everyone is of the same mind, for sure. I suppose I could live with it, as long as it doesn't unfairly penalize smaller teams.


The previous refueling rigs were all control units supplied by Intertechnique, they make fueling rigs for aircraft. They flowed something in the range of 13L a second with a pressurized system. They could switch to the setup used by IndyCar, V8 Supercar, Super GT, and DTM that are gravity fed. There are teams in those series with small budgets and they all have the equipment.

The only real oops issue with IndyCar this year was Graham Rahal driving out of his stall at Fontana with the buckeye still attached, wasn't his fault since the refueller reinserted and it did not trip the auto neutral feature.

 

[Garak]

The musings I've heard from the teams was that it would be better if it were a standardized rig so as not to have the smaller teams stuck coming up with their own designs. Logistics are another obvious concern. Of course, the talk is that it would be optional anyhow, and the teams that could find seconds by filling would do so, and if they couldn't find time through refueling, it wouldn't happen. Of course, if teams can find time but only the richest teams can afford a refueling rig (i.e. if they were stuck coming up with their own), that would only serve to exacerbate disparity. However, if it accomplishes something without being a royal pain in the behind from a cost or safety perspective, so be it.

 

[billt460]

Go back to 18,000 RPM V-10's, and give them all the fuel and engines, (not "power units"), they want. When Schumacher's lap times from 11 years ago are STILL STANDING, they're B.S.'ing themselves into thinking they're "advancing" anything. Instead of wasting money and engineering effort on silly battery powered drive systems, "DRS Zones", and all of this other nonsense, build bigger runoff areas. They need to stop turning Formula 1 into a science fair no one wants to see. What's next, solar powered brakes on Sunny days only?