I think I am having some clutch problems with my 88 F-150 with the M5OD trans. For a couple of years I have been having the occasional problem getting it into gear at a stoplight if I let the clutch out in neutral while sitting at the light. Now if I let the truck sit in neutral while running it will never go into any gear. If I can get it in third and get the truck rolling it will go into first, and if I slide it into first while rolling up to the light and hold the clutch it will work. It does seem that the clutch isn't completely disengaging the truck will sometimes seem to hold itself or move forward slightly with the clutch all the way in. And sometimes I'll have to 'snatch' it out of gear when parked and the truck will roll like the clutch was holding it. Any thoughts? Also if I shut the truck off at the light it will go into gear then I can restart and drive. It shifts normally while moving.
Possible Clutch Problem
- Thread starter nwjones18
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Sounds like you are correct. If it's the hydraulics they sometimes get better if you pump the pedal.
I have a 95 with the same tranny and I have to wait a second after hitting the clutch for stuff to "spin down" before going for first. But you're way further along.
I bet your synchros are what let you get in up to this point, and that you're grinding them with every half-clutched shift.
I have a 95 with the same tranny and I have to wait a second after hitting the clutch for stuff to "spin down" before going for first. But you're way further along.
I bet your synchros are what let you get in up to this point, and that you're grinding them with every half-clutched shift.
I have the same setup in my 88 E-150. It sounds like the clutch isn't fully releasing, you already figured that out though. Have you checked for leaking hydraulic fluid? If it's not leaking have you bled the system? I had occasional issues with grinding going into reverse, and sometimes getting into first required a bit of muscle. Bleeding always fixed both problems. Yours sounds a bit more severe but that's where I'd start before dropping the transmission. The slave cylinder might be on its way out.
Those units should be bled as part of a maintenance program.
As a side note I always shift into Reverse using this method: Come to a complete stop, press in the clutch, shift into first, then reverse, and back up.
Those units should be bled as part of a maintenance program.
As a side note I always shift into Reverse using this method: Come to a complete stop, press in the clutch, shift into first, then reverse, and back up.
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How much freeplay does the pedal have? More than 1.5", you likely have a problem. Do these setups have an adjustment, either at the slave cylinder or at the top of the pedal? Or do they "Self adjust?"
If the system was leaking down, as in failed slave cylinder, the clutch would release itself when you were stopped with the clutch in. Either something is out of adjustment, or you just have air in the system, so that you are compressing it, rather than disengaging the clutch.
If the system was leaking down, as in failed slave cylinder, the clutch would release itself when you were stopped with the clutch in. Either something is out of adjustment, or you just have air in the system, so that you are compressing it, rather than disengaging the clutch.
Hydraulic systems have no adjustment. I would try bleeding the system first once I confirmed there are no leaks. Wheel dog is correct about the possibility of air in the system.
Originally Posted By: nwjones18
.... Now if I let the truck sit in neutral while running it will never go into any gear. If I can get it in third and get the truck rolling it will go into first, and if I slide it into first while rolling up to the light and hold the clutch it will work. It does seem that the clutch isn't completely disengaging the truck will sometimes seem to hold itself or move forward slightly with the clutch all the way in. And sometimes I'll have to 'snatch' it out of gear when parked and the truck will roll like the clutch was holding it. Any thoughts? Also if I shut the truck off at the light it will go into gear then I can restart and drive.
Originally Posted By: nwjones18
It shifts normally while moving.
The first section does indicate a disengagement problem, but the last part I separated out indicates to me you have a bad throwout bearing. We replaced that on my wife's Wrangler last year and the symptoms were exactly as you posted. Before you go digging into the master/slave system, have your throwout bearing replaced (and might as well do the clutch while you're at it)
.... Now if I let the truck sit in neutral while running it will never go into any gear. If I can get it in third and get the truck rolling it will go into first, and if I slide it into first while rolling up to the light and hold the clutch it will work. It does seem that the clutch isn't completely disengaging the truck will sometimes seem to hold itself or move forward slightly with the clutch all the way in. And sometimes I'll have to 'snatch' it out of gear when parked and the truck will roll like the clutch was holding it. Any thoughts? Also if I shut the truck off at the light it will go into gear then I can restart and drive.
Originally Posted By: nwjones18
It shifts normally while moving.
The first section does indicate a disengagement problem, but the last part I separated out indicates to me you have a bad throwout bearing. We replaced that on my wife's Wrangler last year and the symptoms were exactly as you posted. Before you go digging into the master/slave system, have your throwout bearing replaced (and might as well do the clutch while you're at it)
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Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Hydraulic systems have no adjustment. I would try bleeding the system first once I confirmed there are no leaks. Wheel dog is correct about the possibility of air in the system.
Some have pedal height adjustment.
Hydraulic systems have no adjustment. I would try bleeding the system first once I confirmed there are no leaks. Wheel dog is correct about the possibility of air in the system.
Some have pedal height adjustment.
The clutch/slave cylinder in the truck were installed in 2009 and have roughly 40k miles on them. I do not believe there is any pedal/linkage adjustment in this system, but I will try to bleed it. I haven't noticed any leaks and the master cylinder is full (I've never had to add any fluid to it) I've never liked the clutch that's in it anyway, so this may be my excuse to just replace everything and start new. LUK pro gold clutch, slave cylinder, master cylinder and flywheel is less than $300 from rockauto.
If you replace the clutch I would suggest replacing the flywheel as well. Ford used a 10" clutch and an 11" clutch as well in those trucks. The flywheel is drilled to take either 10" or 11"clutch, a nice upgrade is an 11" clutch if yours doesn't have one. Have a look at Centerforce Clutches, the CTF-II is a very good heavy duty unit and comes in 11". Zero chatter, nice and smooth if done right. Hope this helps.
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Have to say again that since it always shifts fine while moving, IMHO it's the throwout bearing. And I'm out.
The clutch kit comes with a new 'release' bearing and the slave cylinder comes with the throwout bearing. They are one piece on this truck I believe.
Have to say again that since it always shifts fine while moving, IMHO it's the throwout bearing. And I'm out.
The clutch kit comes with a new 'release' bearing and the slave cylinder comes with the throwout bearing. They are one piece on this truck I believe.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I have the same setup in my 88 E-150. It sounds like the clutch isn't fully releasing, you already figured that out though. Have you checked for leaking hydraulic fluid? If it's not leaking have you bled the system? I had occasional issues with grinding going into reverse, and sometimes getting into first required a bit of muscle. Bleeding always fixed both problems. Yours sounds a bit more severe but that's where I'd start before dropping the transmission. The slave cylinder might be on its way out.
Those units should be bled as part of a maintenance program.
As a side note I always shift into Reverse using this method: Come to a complete stop, press in the clutch, shift into first, then reverse, and back up.
What is your preferred method for bleeding the system? I've been reading around and it seems everyone has a different theory on how to bleed these clutches.
I have the same setup in my 88 E-150. It sounds like the clutch isn't fully releasing, you already figured that out though. Have you checked for leaking hydraulic fluid? If it's not leaking have you bled the system? I had occasional issues with grinding going into reverse, and sometimes getting into first required a bit of muscle. Bleeding always fixed both problems. Yours sounds a bit more severe but that's where I'd start before dropping the transmission. The slave cylinder might be on its way out.
Those units should be bled as part of a maintenance program.
As a side note I always shift into Reverse using this method: Come to a complete stop, press in the clutch, shift into first, then reverse, and back up.
What is your preferred method for bleeding the system? I've been reading around and it seems everyone has a different theory on how to bleed these clutches.
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Originally Posted By: nwjones18
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Have to say again that since it always shifts fine while moving, IMHO it's the throwout bearing. And I'm out.
The clutch kit comes with a new 'release' bearing and the slave cylinder comes with the throwout bearing. They are one piece on this truck I believe.
The slave cylinder and TOB are two separate parts.
As far a bleeding the clutch, if there is no air in the system, I crack the bleeder and keep the fluid level topped up in the reservoir and let gravity change out the old fluid.
For replacing parts and/or when air is in the system these methods work. http://www.gobluedevil.com/blog/bleed-clutch/
http://www.doityourself.com/stry/how-to-bleed-a-hydraulic-clutch
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Have to say again that since it always shifts fine while moving, IMHO it's the throwout bearing. And I'm out.
The clutch kit comes with a new 'release' bearing and the slave cylinder comes with the throwout bearing. They are one piece on this truck I believe.
The slave cylinder and TOB are two separate parts.
As far a bleeding the clutch, if there is no air in the system, I crack the bleeder and keep the fluid level topped up in the reservoir and let gravity change out the old fluid.
For replacing parts and/or when air is in the system these methods work. http://www.gobluedevil.com/blog/bleed-clutch/
http://www.doityourself.com/stry/how-to-bleed-a-hydraulic-clutch
I bled it this evening and it seems to be working better. The slave cylinder makes a loud squeaking sounds when it moves which seems odd. I couldn't find any leaks anywhere. We'll see if it keeps on working. Thanks for all the advice!
Just thought I'd update. Bleeding the clutch helped, but I found there was to much free play between the clutch pedal and the master cylinder. Found a good procedure to measure/fix it in the Haynes manual and had to buy a new one of these.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0042HE...ailpage_o02_s00
That's what ended up really solving my problem.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0042HE...ailpage_o02_s00
That's what ended up really solving my problem.
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