how much power is too much power?
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ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2024
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
Intake and exhaust modifications don't help much, unless the increased noise makes you THINK the car is more powerful. To use the "increased" airflow coming in and the increased exhaust flow your engine would also need to increase its flow of gases. So, without cam, valve timing, and fuel injection modifications there's not going to be much benefit.
I am not saying you get nothing. You just don't get much more than placebo effect.
Might want to caveat that it depends on the platform. An LS motor like my WS6 has does respond to those things well. Exhaust and SLP netted 26 RWHP on the Dyno without a tune 36 with a tune. It is not the same for all engines.
Intake and exhaust modifications don't help much, unless the increased noise makes you THINK the car is more powerful. To use the "increased" airflow coming in and the increased exhaust flow your engine would also need to increase its flow of gases. So, without cam, valve timing, and fuel injection modifications there's not going to be much benefit.
I am not saying you get nothing. You just don't get much more than placebo effect.
Might want to caveat that it depends on the platform. An LS motor like my WS6 has does respond to those things well. Exhaust and SLP netted 26 RWHP on the Dyno without a tune 36 with a tune. It is not the same for all engines.
My Mazdaspeed 3 makes @320 hp and 320 lb-ft of torque, the usable power band being from 3000 rpm to 6000 rpm. That is about all the power this particular FWD platform can handle. That said, my next car will likely be RWD with over 400 hp. I want to enjoy some truly fast cars before the CAFE standards really kick in.
Never dynoed so I can't give you a number, but enough power to light them up at 40 MPH on clean dry asphalt just by dropping the loud-pedal...(and keep them spinning until 60+) that's pretty fun. Any more is just going to be expensive and useless bragging rights.
I have been quite successful in racing BMW's in a multitude of venues, and perhaps as a result of that, all of my street cars are modified to the closest thing to "streetable track" as I can manage.
If my experience has taught me anything, it's that $10K into the suspension, chassis, brakes, and wheels/tires (traction and unsprung weight) is worth 5x that in "power mods" (I built the S54 in my signature, 367.3rwhp and 313.0rwtq, 3.2L N/A on 93), and that holds true whether you are gunning for pole or killing that favorite back road...
If my experience has taught me anything, it's that $10K into the suspension, chassis, brakes, and wheels/tires (traction and unsprung weight) is worth 5x that in "power mods" (I built the S54 in my signature, 367.3rwhp and 313.0rwtq, 3.2L N/A on 93), and that holds true whether you are gunning for pole or killing that favorite back road...
Tyres, suspension and brakes are the best bang/buck for seconds on track or auto x.
Optimised gear set and a diff make it feel like a different car.
Pulling weight out of the car is free!
Properly designed intake and exhaust work wonders with supporting mods like head, cam, and more compression
What's his budget? Standalone management can make the most unfriendly engines idle and part throttle cruise like stock (I'm talking 14:1, 300 degree cam, open ITBs etc).
Is his interpretation of a daily driver a normal car with some bolt ons? Or an impractical and uncomfortable monster with lights and plates?
Optimised gear set and a diff make it feel like a different car.
Pulling weight out of the car is free!
Properly designed intake and exhaust work wonders with supporting mods like head, cam, and more compression
What's his budget? Standalone management can make the most unfriendly engines idle and part throttle cruise like stock (I'm talking 14:1, 300 degree cam, open ITBs etc).
Is his interpretation of a daily driver a normal car with some bolt ons? Or an impractical and uncomfortable monster with lights and plates?
JHZR2
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Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Id say that my 135i (300hp/300 lb-ft at idle) is a bit too much.
Holy moly, 300HP/TQ AT IDLE!? How in the heck do you put that thing in gear!?
OK, more like 1000-1200 RPM. Obviously though it makes something at idle
While neither the best or the fastest, it is indeed more than capable of taking a 3400 lb vehicle way beyond legal speeds in very rapid time, and hit in excess of 100MPH right quick.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Id say that my 135i (300hp/300 lb-ft at idle) is a bit too much.
Holy moly, 300HP/TQ AT IDLE!? How in the heck do you put that thing in gear!?
OK, more like 1000-1200 RPM. Obviously though it makes something at idle
While neither the best or the fastest, it is indeed more than capable of taking a 3400 lb vehicle way beyond legal speeds in very rapid time, and hit in excess of 100MPH right quick.
I spent a lot of seat time in a buddy's SAS/Turbo 2003 Mustang Cobra which had tunes ranging from dyno confirmed 600rwhp to 800+rwhp and I'll say this....it was too much, even on the most conservative tune, unless it was in track trim. The car drove to the track, ran 9 second 1/4 miles and drove home. In street trim you could blow the tires off the rims from a 60mph roll on the highway. Insanely enough the car was pretty well mannered on the street but would quickly remind you of your mortality if you got too aggressive with the throttle. It also handled very well. The cost to build that car was hardly a drop in the bucket when compared to the cost of building most other ~10 second street cars. And, oh, the sound of a 4v 4.6 is legendary. You could tell what it was from 4 blocks away.
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: Trav
Its all relative, small car doesn't need a lot of HP to be really quick, the heavier the car the more is needed to provide the same performance.
A GSXR 1300 engine in a smart car is more than a little entertaining.
It's a lot more entertaining when the engine is making far more power than stock, and is still in the Motorcycle.
Which car would you like to be seem driving?
Originally Posted By: Trav
Its all relative, small car doesn't need a lot of HP to be really quick, the heavier the car the more is needed to provide the same performance.
A GSXR 1300 engine in a smart car is more than a little entertaining.
It's a lot more entertaining when the engine is making far more power than stock, and is still in the Motorcycle.
Which car would you like to be seem driving?
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: Trav
Its all relative, small car doesn't need a lot of HP to be really quick, the heavier the car the more is needed to provide the same performance.
A GSXR 1300 engine in a smart car is more than a little entertaining.
It's a lot more entertaining when the engine is making far more power than stock, and is still in the Motorcycle.
Which car would you like to be seem driving?
I don't ride or drive anything, to impress others.
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: Trav
Its all relative, small car doesn't need a lot of HP to be really quick, the heavier the car the more is needed to provide the same performance.
A GSXR 1300 engine in a smart car is more than a little entertaining.
It's a lot more entertaining when the engine is making far more power than stock, and is still in the Motorcycle.
Which car would you like to be seem driving?
I don't ride or drive anything, to impress others.
Right on surfstar. Invest that money in no-load funds that track the S&P 500. It is never too early to start investing for retirement.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: gregoron
Too much power is when the chassis, brakes, and driver cannot handle the speed from a given throttle input.
Yup, this. My time in a Hellcat demonstrated that 707HP is quite streetable when the car is setup for it.
Too much power is when the chassis, brakes, and driver cannot handle the speed from a given throttle input.
Yup, this. My time in a Hellcat demonstrated that 707HP is quite streetable when the car is setup for it.
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: Trav
Its all relative, small car doesn't need a lot of HP to be really quick, the heavier the car the more is needed to provide the same performance.
A GSXR 1300 engine in a smart car is more than a little entertaining.
It's a lot more entertaining when the engine is making far more power than stock, and is still in the Motorcycle.
Which car would you like to be seem driving?
I had to check.....Yep, you are from California
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: Trav
Its all relative, small car doesn't need a lot of HP to be really quick, the heavier the car the more is needed to provide the same performance.
A GSXR 1300 engine in a smart car is more than a little entertaining.
It's a lot more entertaining when the engine is making far more power than stock, and is still in the Motorcycle.
Which car would you like to be seem driving?
I had to check.....Yep, you are from California
It's highly unlikely your friend will ever breach the "too much" power threshold with a Hyundai Tiburon. Pretty fun cars as delivered, though.
Perhaps suggest he avoid altogether the 'mod' sections of Hyundai forums?
Perhaps suggest he avoid altogether the 'mod' sections of Hyundai forums?
Originally Posted By: 02SE
I don't ride or drive anything, to impress others.
That's very admirable of you, but, around here at least, EVERY one of those cars (as well as all Priuses, new bugs, most Miatas and Minis, and some other marques) have equal signs, and rainbow stickers on them.
So, if one does not want to worry about their orientation being mistaken in these parts, it is 'safer' to not be in one of those marques.
I don't ride or drive anything, to impress others.
That's very admirable of you, but, around here at least, EVERY one of those cars (as well as all Priuses, new bugs, most Miatas and Minis, and some other marques) have equal signs, and rainbow stickers on them.
So, if one does not want to worry about their orientation being mistaken in these parts, it is 'safer' to not be in one of those marques.
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: 02SE
I don't ride or drive anything, to impress others.
That's very admirable of you, but, around here at least, EVERY one of those cars (as well as all Priuses, new bugs, most Miatas and Minis, and some other marques) have equal signs, and rainbow stickers on them.
So, if one does not want to worry about their orientation being mistaken in these parts, it is 'safer' to not be in one of those marques.
I guess it's fortunate for me, that I don't own anything along those lines.
Let me put it this way: Sitting here in the staging lanes at Pacific Raceway, the vehicle I'm here to work on, doesn't have too much power, IMO.
Originally Posted By: 02SE
I don't ride or drive anything, to impress others.
That's very admirable of you, but, around here at least, EVERY one of those cars (as well as all Priuses, new bugs, most Miatas and Minis, and some other marques) have equal signs, and rainbow stickers on them.
So, if one does not want to worry about their orientation being mistaken in these parts, it is 'safer' to not be in one of those marques.
I guess it's fortunate for me, that I don't own anything along those lines.
Let me put it this way: Sitting here in the staging lanes at Pacific Raceway, the vehicle I'm here to work on, doesn't have too much power, IMO.
Anything more than 88 HP is a waste.
It's all about power to weight. 13,200 hp pulling 25,000 tons up a 1% grade is the most fun you can have at 9mph.
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