Short Tripping (Synthetic vs. Conventional & OCI)

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My wife's car (2009 Honda Civic) (63k miles) is driven as a moderate short tripper. Her one- way drive to work is 7 miles and 15 slow minutes. Her other trips are as short or shorter. Once or twice a month the car gets a highway run around Indianapolis.

As the weather gets cold I consider this even more of a short trip issue due to the lack of warm up, etc.

Up until now I have run M1 Extended Performance for 5k miles in the car.

Should this OCI be adjusted even though the oil is a high mileage oil? Does synthetic oil in any way help mitigate the issues associated with short tripping? Should I consider switching to a conventional and changing out at 3k miles? Any help is appreciated as the idea of short tripping and the negative effects are somewhat new to me in my oil and oci equations. Thanks
 
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Originally Posted By: 2civics
...

Should this OCI be adjusted even though the oil is a high mileage oil?

Does synthetic oil in any way help mitigate the issues associated with short tripping?

Should I consider switching to a conventional and changing out at 3k miles?



Maybe - perhaps even upwards.

Sometimes.

Perhaps, but only a UOA can tell you for sure.
 
Why not have her start the car and do her makeup or something while it warms up before driving? I give my 96 civic a couple minutes before heading out. My wife does the same in the 13 corolla. Wait for the idle to drop and the temp to come up some. Not necessarily all the way warm...
 
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Originally Posted By: 2civics
...

Should this OCI be adjusted even though the oil is a high mileage oil?

Does synthetic oil in any way help mitigate the issues associated with short tripping?

Should I consider switching to a conventional and changing out at 3k miles?



Maybe - perhaps even upwards.

Sometimes.

Perhaps, but only a UOA can tell you for sure.


So would a UOA tell me what is happening in terms of the short tripping? What would that be? Amount of moisture? Amount of gasoline in the engine?
 
Originally Posted By: ryanschillinger
Why not have her start the car and do her makeup or something while it warms up before driving? I give my 96 civic a couple minutes before heading out. My wife does the same in the 13 corolla. Wait for the idle to drop and the temp to come up some. Not necessarily all the way warm...


Hmmm... gonna have to think on this one, especially as to it's application in winter....can it be that easy??
 
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idling cold in winter is never a positive.

My work commute is 1 mile.

I do get out for 30-50 mile drive once or more a week though.
 
Originally Posted By: Rand
idling cold in winter is never a positive.

My work commute is 1 mile.

I do get out for 30-50 mile drive once or more a week though.


So you just make sure you get everything burned off once a week.....
 
I don' think you need to alter anything. That isn't that short of a trip. Just get it out once in a while on a long trip and you are fine. I had a 2 mile commute through town for years in MN winter and my vehicles are still running just fine. Changed anywhere from 4 to 5,000.
 
The infamous "aunt millie test", probably the most destructive oil test ever invented:

1. The aunt minnie test is the test of "the severity on the engine oil during this type of testing is attributed to conditions where the engine rarely reaches optimum operating temperatures."
2. The driving test consists of two short cycles, a 3 mile and 1.5 mile test.
3. "Under this severe driving condition, synthetic oil can provide excellent protection against engine wear and deposit formation."
4. The bulk oil temp ranged from 90 C in the summer to 30 C in the winter.
5. Fuel dilution was as high as 11%.
6. Cleanliness was excellent, the deck sludge rating was 9.7 out of 10.
7. "The iron content showed a low rate of increase, only 100 ppm after 40 months, although there has been a steady increase to over 600 ppm over the last 22 months. The source of iron has not been determined, as visual inspection of the engine did not indicate any abnormal wear or corrosion. In addition, elevated iron levels have not appeared in other test vehicles operating under 'aunt minnie' conditions."

The oil was a 5W30 running in a 3.1 L V6 with no oil drains.

The oil volume sampled was 5.5L and make-up was 4.4L. TBN retention was 33.

Test duration was for 60 months.
 
Originally Posted By: 2civics
My wife's car (2009 Honda Civic) (63k miles) is driven as a moderate short tripper. Her one- way drive to work is 7 miles and 15 slow minutes. Her other trips are as short or shorter. Once or twice a month the car gets a highway run around Indianapolis.

As the weather gets cold I consider this even more of a short trip issue due to the lack of warm up, etc.

Up until now I have run M1 Extended Performance for 5k miles in the car.


I wouldn't change what you're doing for the oil service. I do like block heaters in cold weather for the near-instant defrost/cabin heat, fuel savings and wear reduction.
 
M1 EP is a 15k mile oil so it should be holding up fine against 5k miles of short trips. As Kuato said, you may even be able to extend your OCI. I would think 7.5k miles would not be unreasonable with your monthly highway runs.

Does the vehicle have a maintenance minder/oil change reminder? Depending on the oil specs required in your manual, you may be able to go 2x the maintenance minder interval with EP. I say run the oil to 7.5k and get a UOA, just for peace of mind if not to determine if you can extend further.
 
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Originally Posted By: ryanschillinger
Why not have her start the car and do her makeup or something while it warms up before driving? I give my 96 civic a couple minutes before heading out. My wife does the same in the 13 corolla. Wait for the idle to drop and the temp to come up some. Not necessarily all the way warm...


One of the things I've learned while reading this forum is coolant temp and oil temp are completely different things and prolonged idling is not helpful to your motor or its oil.
 
The proper rated oil is all that matters and shorter oil changes are better than longer oil changes with severe service. Why spens more money than needed with the syn.
 
How is giving it a couple minutes of high idle, waiting for it to come down a bit before driving, considered prolonged idling? And how is it worse for the car to warm up at a no load idle condition, instead of driving it? If wear is worst when cold, shouldn't it make sense to keep the load and rpm low until the temp
Comes up a bit...? My 67 and 69 fords get a good 5 minutes of warming up before driving. They are cold blooded and carbureted. These cars get maybe 2 minutes of idling before driving.
 
Originally Posted By: 2civics
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Originally Posted By: 2civics
...

Should this OCI be adjusted even though the oil is a high mileage oil?

Does synthetic oil in any way help mitigate the issues associated with short tripping?

Should I consider switching to a conventional and changing out at 3k miles?



Maybe - perhaps even upwards.

Sometimes.

Perhaps, but only a UOA can tell you for sure.


So would a UOA tell me what is happening in terms of the short tripping? What would that be? Amount of moisture? Amount of gasoline in the engine?


TBN, TAN, fuel dilution, or thickening would all be indicated by a UOA. I am sure there are other things that could be looked at but those are what I would be looking at first.
 
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You can start changing the oil at 0% instead of 15% since you're using M1 EP. The Honda MM system is very accurate so I would follow it no matter what.
 
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
You can start changing the oil at 0% instead of 15% since you're using M1 EP. The Honda MM system is very accurate so I would follow it no matter what.


Is that MM based on just plain ole time and mileage? Or is it as good as GM's OLM (and now Ford's IOLM I just learned)?
 
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
You can start changing the oil at 0% instead of 15% since you're using M1 EP. The Honda MM system is very accurate so I would follow it no matter what.


Is that MM based on just plain ole time and mileage? Or is it as good as GM's OLM (and now Ford's IOLM I just learned)?


I'll let a Honda expert confirm but from what I understand, it's based on more than just time and mileage. Things like total rpms, engine temp, total engine starts, etc.
 
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
You can start changing the oil at 0% instead of 15% since you're using M1 EP. The Honda MM system is very accurate so I would follow it no matter what.


Is that MM based on just plain ole time and mileage? Or is it as good as GM's OLM (and now Ford's IOLM I just learned)?


It's based on coolant temp, estimated oil temp, engine on time, rpm, mileage etc. It will vary OCI by a lot when short tripping. My GF's 09 Civic hit 15% with only ~4.3k miles of extreme short tripping over the last 9 months including the long winter we had. I've seen Civics take up to 10k miles to hit 15% MM when run on 99% hwy in the southern states.
 
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