H4 bulb output?

[JHZR2]

Can someone verify the ratings on H4?

H4 is a dual filiment bulb. IIRC they are in DOT form 55W low, 60W high.

But it seems that they are often rated around 1000W low, 1650 high.

Is that right? Does that mean that when on in high beam mode, BOTH fillaments are on?

If so, does that mean that you are burning 55+65W and are getting 1000+1650 lumens?

OR, is thehigh element only a 5-ish W burner, and somehow it (due to focus, or something else) get you an additional 650 lumens? IOW, high burns a TOTAL of 65W and puts out a total or 1650?

Ive recently seen some interesting high output LED H4 bulbs, but they seem to put out 2500 lumens on low (great assuming the e-code reflectors can cut the beam pattern properly) and no additional on high beam... which would mean roughly the same output on high, but just reflected differently, but a great improvement on low.

Of course that may mean excessive foreground lighting which makes nighttime vision actually worse.

But curious what is the reality for H4.

Thanks!

 

[Vikas]

All of the H4 that I have experience with (at least 5 different cars), on high beam, only high beam comes on. On some cars, I can manually push/pull the stick to keep both on but otherwise only one beam will be on.

But you do have a good point. How do you get extra 650 lumens from extra 5 watts? That seems physically not possible. Also lumens measure total light output and is not affected by the beam pattern.

The H4 bi-xenon (aka ricer special) use magnetic coil to move the arc, so the lumens stay constant between low and high.

Bottom line is that there is no good alternative to H4; so HID and no LED :-( There is no HIR.

 

[HTSS_TR]

My Lexus LS400 has H4, when high beam is on low beam is off.

The reason high beam is much brighter than low beam with only 5W extra because the high beam filament is much hotter and its life is much shorter, but high beam is rarely on so the low beam filament is usually burnt out before high beam.

 

[JHZR2]

Ok that makes sense. It's like an H9 vs H11, the H9 puts much more out with longer life.

So the HB filament is good for 1650 lumen from like 60-65W.

I won't try HID in an H4, but there are some interesting LED bulbs good for 2500 lumen that might be worth a look, especially in older cars where it means a lot less draw from the electrical system. Too bad all headlight LEDs seem to be at like 6000K instead of 4500.

 

[HTSS_TR]

I think you mean "the H9 puts much more out with longer shorter life".

Yes, similar concept. There is no free lunch, you want brighter light then expect shorter life for similar filament design.

 

[JHZR2]

Yes, H9= shorter life. Thanks for noting that.

 

[buck91]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
...Bottom line is that there is no good alternative to H4; so HID and no LED :-( There is no HIR.


I don't understand, are you implying the H4 is an inadequate bulb? I remember it wasn't that long ago people were all about converting to H4's... I also know that my 1980 Yamaha is running a single H4 headlight and that it offers VERY adequate (not amazing or even great) forward lighting.

Seems A good H4 setup is a good thing, to me. But of course, I also find the stock headlights on my truck to be impressive (best headlights I've owned).

 

[wrcsixeight]

One one's vehicle allows one to hold both filaments lit at once, Then extended times with both filaments glowing would cause bulb failure at some point. Extended times with both filaments on, when not moving might melt the lens, perhaps reflector too.

The actual wattage consumed is highly variable at different voltages, and apparently there is not a worldwide standard as to which voltage that they earn their wattage rating at

Check out this thread:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?392498-Interesting-headlight-bulb-test-results

 

[cazi]

and another "candlepowerforums" link, on H4 current measurement: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?228253-Philips-EcoVision-H4

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: buck91
I don't understand, are you implying the H4 is an inadequate bulb? I remember it wasn't that long ago people were all about converting to H4's... I also know that my 1980 Yamaha is running a single H4 headlight and that it offers VERY adequate (not amazing or even great) forward lighting.


The HB2/H4 specification is an older one -- one of the oldest bulb designs out there. I wouldn't say that it's inadequate -- it's just outdated, and there are newer bulb specifications that will easily out-perform it under many circumstances.

It's an interesting bulb, though, and the only dual filament bulb to use an integrated glare shield on the low beam filament. And, despite its age, it remains a very popular bulb, at least with some manufacturers. I'm not aware of any domestic manufacturers who use it, but European and Asian manufacturers still use it. The CR-V today still uses HB2 bulbs. Our 2008 CR-V used them, and our 2009 Ridgeline uses them. Most domestic manufacturers used the HB1 (9003), then the HB5 (9007), and now they've moved to the H13 for the most part. If it's a domestic manufacturer and it's a dual filament bulb, it's most likely an H13.

HB2/H4:

H13:

Originally Posted By: buck91
Seems A good H4 setup is a good thing, to me. But of course, I also find the stock headlights on my truck to be impressive (best headlights I've owned).


I agree that a good HB2/H4 setup is nice. It seems difficult to manage the balance on this one between low and high beam. With the HB5 and H13, for example, the high beam filament is simply offset vertically and horizontally just a little bit to shift the beam pattern. You should be able to observe this in your F-150 -- pull up to a wall and study the light hot spot, then shift between high beam and low beam. The hot spot simply shifts up and to your left on the wall.

But the HB2/H4 uses a high beam filament in a completely different location within the bulb, and the reflector bucket necessarily has to account for this. If you come across a CR-V or an older generation Tundra or a Tacoma in a parking lot and study the lamp reflector, you'll notice a "crease line" that extends from the center line down and to your right (towards the driver side) of the bucket. There's also likely a "crease line" that extends from the center line across or maybe slightly down and to your left (towards the passenger side). All areas ABOVE this crease are lit by the low beam filament. The crease seems to help define the cut-off, but I'm not completely clear on the function of this crease. The ENTIRE reflector is used for the unshielded high beam filament. Sometimes, getting a good beam pattern on BOTH low and high beam is difficult. It appears to vary with other design and packaging constraints (size of reflector, etc).

I found a good picture that shows these crease lines, on a Tacoma:

Our CR-V's lamp design didn't do the best job at managing this balance. Low beam was fine. And high beam seemed to be everything that wasn't low beam -- so there was a significant dark zone on the road. Our Ridgeline, curiously, does a wonderful job, and it's hard to believe the lamps were designed by the same company. Low beam casts an incredibly wide beam, and high beam is perfectly balanced (to me) between long and short distance. The CR-V's reflector buckets were set very deep into the housing -- that probably didn't help much.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: buck91
Originally Posted By: Vikas
...Bottom line is that there is no good alternative to H4; so HID and no LED :-( There is no HIR.


I don't understand, are you implying the H4 is an inadequate bulb? I remember it wasn't that long ago people were all about converting to H4's... I also know that my 1980 Yamaha is running a single H4 headlight and that it offers VERY adequate (not amazing or even great) forward lighting.

Seems A good H4 setup is a good thing, to me. But of course, I also find the stock headlights on my truck to be impressive (best headlights I've owned).


H4 in a good set of e-codes (eg cibie) is tough to beat by any halogen setup. Though illegal for vehicle use on road, using uprated 100W/80W H4 bulbs in those e-codes gives substantial long-distance illumination.

The issue is that lack of a projector and the dual filament location of the H4makes HID very difficult to use in there. Some of the latest 4-LED bulbs, which can simulate the relative location of the filament show promise, but they are rated at like 2500lm in low, same in high. That's why I was wondering if both filaments burned in high beam, to see if I was really comparing ~2600lm or ~1600lm in high beam...

I may give these a try in my MB just because the electrical systems have only 55-65A alternators. Thing is, Im not sure 6500K light is as good for visability compared to if the LEDs were more like 4500K.

 

[Vikas]

I would love to see how that LED works for you. Unfortunately, I do not believe I have room in my van to try it. I am also not really convinced that the LED point source is matching with the halogen filament. You will be having essentially the same issue as the ricer reflector HID.

Also you absolutely want color 4500 or lower instead of 6500 if your aim is to see better. You should be able to find 4500 but at little loss of lumens. Physically, relatively thicker yellow phosphor layer on the LED makes warmer color but it also cuts down on the output lumens.

H4 was good in 1983! I swapped my HB2 (??) headlights (aka entire glass sealed unit) with Hella H4 on 1983 Prelude. It was night and day difference between the stock headlight vs the H4 setup. But we are talking about over 30 year old technology! What I lament most is the lack of HIR bulbs in dual beam H4 form factor. I do not know if it technological limitation or purely a marketing one.

 

[JHZR2]

Yup, I too wish there was HIR in H4.

There are some +130% bulbs that look good, but the benefit to me of a retrofit, be it LED, some HID (which I doubt is feasible due to its use in a reflector housing), etc. is that the substantially reduced draw makes things easier on low-spec, old electric systems.

One would hope that the LEDs on a bulb like what I showed would be well aligned to the expected location on an H4... But who knows.

Point taken on color temp...

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
I would love to see how that LED works for you. Unfortunately, I do not believe I have room in my van to try it. I am also not really convinced that the LED point source is matching with the halogen filament. You will be having essentially the same issue as the ricer reflector HID.

Also you absolutely want color 4500 or lower instead of 6500 if your aim is to see better. You should be able to find 4500 but at little loss of lumens. Physically, relatively thicker yellow phosphor layer on the LED makes warmer color but it also cuts down on the output lumens.

H4 was good in 1983! I swapped my HB2 (??) headlights (aka entire glass sealed unit) with Hella H4 on 1983 Prelude. It was night and day difference between the stock headlight vs the H4 setup. But we are talking about over 30 year old technology! What I lament most is the lack of HIR bulbs in dual beam H4 form factor. I do not know if it technological limitation or purely a marketing one.
I don't think you can get much better, even today, then the quad headlamp system BMW used for so long ....with E code lamps. We just upgraded an 83 633SCI with them (actually back to the system as used in Europe) and it's good, especially with 100 watt highs. The Indians, of all countries sell some very nice copies of the Hella 5.75 lamps. I like LEDs as a concept, but they are not YET the point source a filament is for use as replacements. There's a difference between a properly designed system and trying to "improve" an existing system with LED bulbs.

 

[BRZED]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
But you do have a good point. How do you get extra 650 lumens from extra 5 watts? That seems physically not possible. Also lumens measure total light output and is not affected by the beam pattern.


When using low beam, the Graves bulb shield lets only about 60% of light get onto the reflector and also shapes the beam cutoff. The high beam does not use a shield or at least not the same shield. So the lumen output cannot be directly compred between low and high beam, since the low beam's output is reduced by the bulb shield. The H4 bulb design is about 40 years old.

 

[tdi-rick]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2


H4 in a good set of e-codes (eg cibie) is tough to beat by any halogen setup. Though illegal for vehicle use on road, using uprated 100W/80W H4 bulbs in those e-codes gives substantial long-distance illumination.



If/when I get a rock through my Cibie Z beams I'll probably replace them with the same, as from what I've seen so far the best LED 7" round headlights still can't match the 100w (or 130w) high beam performance when run through a relay.

 

[Cujet]

The motorcycle guys have found some H4 LED replacement bulbs that really work well. They rave about them. I have not tried them.

http://www.cyclopsadventuresports.com/3800-Lumen-H4-LED-Headlight-bulb-_p_83.html

 

[JHZR2]

Fan cooled - no thanks for a car IMO.

Xenon depot has one with a passive heat sink, but at 6500K it's too blue and not good for damp weather IMO.

 

[Vikas]

The beam photos still show the typical "too much light in the immediate front" syndrome. I really want it to work but those pictures don't inspire confidence.

JHZ may want to try it though as the real life results may be lot better than the pictures.

 

[Cujet]

As I mentioned, I have not tried these. However, I do know some that have. They have adjustable cutoff for low beams, using shims. Also, I'm not sure a fan is a problem for automotive use. As long as there is room.

Cree XML T6 emitters are really good.