M1 20W-50 & 15W-50
- Thread starter CaspianM
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The Vtwin 20w50 is thicker at all temperatures slightly and has a air cooled SJ add pack, assume more ZDDP than M1 15w50 which is already loaded.
Yep found the VOA... The Vtwin 20w50 is insanely loaded in anti wear additives.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...n_O#Post3685346
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...n_O#Post3685346
Just a quick note, the V-twin oil provided more oil pressure that M1, 15W-50 in turbocharged race cars, on extreme days. Such as high speed track days at Homestead, FL in mid summer.
While the 15-50 is a great oil, it's, not as robust in very high heat conditions as the M1 V-twin oil.
While the 15-50 is a great oil, it's, not as robust in very high heat conditions as the M1 V-twin oil.
Yeah mixing in the Mobil 1 20w50 to will bring up ZDDP really nice. You could probably make some nice custom blends with that and the 5w20 high mileage formula if you need something lighter.
Not much is different... 20w50 is ranked 91 in a wear protection test whereas the 15w50 is ranked 111 and viscosity at running temp are the same...
91. 20W50 Mobil 1 V-Twin 4 Cycle Motorcycle Oil, API SJ, synthetic = 75,855 psi
zinc = 1745 ppm
phos = 1598 ppm
moly = 82 ppm
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt 19.9
111. 15W50 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 70,235 psi
zinc = 1,133 ppm
phos = 1,168 ppm
moly = 83 ppm
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt 19.8
91. 20W50 Mobil 1 V-Twin 4 Cycle Motorcycle Oil, API SJ, synthetic = 75,855 psi
zinc = 1745 ppm
phos = 1598 ppm
moly = 82 ppm
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt 19.9
111. 15W50 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 70,235 psi
zinc = 1,133 ppm
phos = 1,168 ppm
moly = 83 ppm
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt 19.8
If this is going into a Harley, you wont really be able to beat the wear numbers given in UOA's of Valvoline VR1 or even Kendall GT1 in Harley V twins.
Thanks Robenstein
The 10w-30 really numbers well
The 10w-30 really numbers well
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Thanks Robenstein
The 10w-30 really numbers well
There is a UOA of the 20w50 in a Harley Twin Cam engine that blows away many of the other motorcycle oils that cost 2x as much per quart, many of them synthetic.
The 10w30 is also very good, but I have not seen it in any motorcycle applications. I did use it in several V8's with good results.
Thanks Robenstein
The 10w-30 really numbers well
There is a UOA of the 20w50 in a Harley Twin Cam engine that blows away many of the other motorcycle oils that cost 2x as much per quart, many of them synthetic.
The 10w30 is also very good, but I have not seen it in any motorcycle applications. I did use it in several V8's with good results.
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Not much is different... and viscosity at running temp are the same...
20W50 Mobil 1 V-Twin
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt 19.9
15W50 Mobil 1
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt 19.8
That does not mirror Mobil's website:
15W-50 @100 = 18
20W-50 @100 = 20.8
https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-v-twin-motorcycle-oil
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAUSENPVLMOMobil1_15W-50.aspx
Not much is different... and viscosity at running temp are the same...
20W50 Mobil 1 V-Twin
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt 19.9
15W50 Mobil 1
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt 19.8
That does not mirror Mobil's website:
15W-50 @100 = 18
20W-50 @100 = 20.8
https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-v-twin-motorcycle-oil
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAUSENPVLMOMobil1_15W-50.aspx
I tried to find current HTHS numbers for the 2 Mobil 1 oils.
In the past the 15W-50 was 4.21 and the 20W-50 was 6.02
In the past the 15W-50 was 4.21 and the 20W-50 was 6.02
Originally Posted By: Cujet
That does not mirror Mobil's website:
15W-50 @100 = 18
20W-50 @100 = 20.8
There is what the company claims and there are actual viscosity quotes from Virgin samples...
That does not mirror Mobil's website:
15W-50 @100 = 18
20W-50 @100 = 20.8
There is what the company claims and there are actual viscosity quotes from Virgin samples...
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Not much is different... 20w50 is ranked 91 in a wear protection test whereas the 15w50 is ranked 111 and viscosity at running temp are the same...
91. 20W50 Mobil 1 V-Twin 4 Cycle Motorcycle Oil, API SJ, synthetic = 75,855 psi
zinc = 1745 ppm
phos = 1598 ppm
moly = 82 ppm
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt 19.9
111. 15W50 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 70,235 psi
zinc = 1,133 ppm
phos = 1,168 ppm
moly = 83 ppm
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt 19.8
You do know that test you're quoting is useless and not valid right?
Not much is different... 20w50 is ranked 91 in a wear protection test whereas the 15w50 is ranked 111 and viscosity at running temp are the same...
91. 20W50 Mobil 1 V-Twin 4 Cycle Motorcycle Oil, API SJ, synthetic = 75,855 psi
zinc = 1745 ppm
phos = 1598 ppm
moly = 82 ppm
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt 19.9
111. 15W50 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 70,235 psi
zinc = 1,133 ppm
phos = 1,168 ppm
moly = 83 ppm
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt 19.8
You do know that test you're quoting is useless and not valid right?
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
You do know that test you're quoting is useless and not valid right?
I know some claim 540 Rat's work is useless and not valid but no one
with an opposing stand has spent their time and energy developing a
more useful independent and unbiased Engineering test of 150+ motor oils to
establish a “Wear Protection Ranking List” which EXACTLY matches real
world Track experience, real world flat tappet break-in experience,
and real world High Performance Street experience...
You do know that test you're quoting is useless and not valid right?
I know some claim 540 Rat's work is useless and not valid but no one
with an opposing stand has spent their time and energy developing a
more useful independent and unbiased Engineering test of 150+ motor oils to
establish a “Wear Protection Ranking List” which EXACTLY matches real
world Track experience, real world flat tappet break-in experience,
and real world High Performance Street experience...
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
The 10w30 is also very good, but I have not seen it in any motorcycle applications.
Did you forget DrDave and his old Harley???
Quote...
"My old Harley really liked 10w-30 Amsoil. These was a significant
reduction in wear metals going from 15-40 to 10-30. There were no
consumption issues. It certainly started easier. By easier I mean it
spun over much faster. The motor seemed quieter, and Harley's need all
the help they can get in that department."
The 10w30 is also very good, but I have not seen it in any motorcycle applications.
Did you forget DrDave and his old Harley???
Quote...
"My old Harley really liked 10w-30 Amsoil. These was a significant
reduction in wear metals going from 15-40 to 10-30. There were no
consumption issues. It certainly started easier. By easier I mean it
spun over much faster. The motor seemed quieter, and Harley's need all
the help they can get in that department."
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
You do know that test you're quoting is useless and not valid right?
I know some claim 540 Rat's work is useless and not valid but no one
with an opposing stand has spent their time and energy developing a
more useful independent and unbiased Engineering test of 150+ motor oils to
establish a “Wear Protection Ranking List” which EXACTLY matches real
world Track experience, real world flat tappet break-in experience,
and real world High Performance Street experience...
Maybe no one really wants to spend the monetary resources and time to do it. In science a study often needs to be confirmed by other parties in order to validate the results. Until then rational people should indeed be able to question its validity.
And from my own personal experience building hundreds of flat tappet engines over my lifetime, if I ran one of the low zinc oils in a big block chevrolet with a hot flat tappet cam for break in, I would fully expect it to run a lobe off a cam or dish out a lifter. I don't think the cam grinders would instruct you to use the proper oils if there was not a problem with using standard off the shelf oil. And many of those grinders do not market special oils, so it is not a sales tactic.
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
You do know that test you're quoting is useless and not valid right?
I know some claim 540 Rat's work is useless and not valid but no one
with an opposing stand has spent their time and energy developing a
more useful independent and unbiased Engineering test of 150+ motor oils to
establish a “Wear Protection Ranking List” which EXACTLY matches real
world Track experience, real world flat tappet break-in experience,
and real world High Performance Street experience...
Maybe no one really wants to spend the monetary resources and time to do it. In science a study often needs to be confirmed by other parties in order to validate the results. Until then rational people should indeed be able to question its validity.
And from my own personal experience building hundreds of flat tappet engines over my lifetime, if I ran one of the low zinc oils in a big block chevrolet with a hot flat tappet cam for break in, I would fully expect it to run a lobe off a cam or dish out a lifter. I don't think the cam grinders would instruct you to use the proper oils if there was not a problem with using standard off the shelf oil. And many of those grinders do not market special oils, so it is not a sales tactic.
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Maybe no one really wants to spend the monetary resources and time to do it.
True... No one wants to beat his test with their own test because the task is dressed in coveralls and looks like work...
Maybe no one really wants to spend the monetary resources and time to do it.
True... No one wants to beat his test with their own test because the task is dressed in coveralls and looks like work...
Just because nobody else has gone out and done a competing bench test doesn't make the test a valid representation of what's going on in your engine.
It's just silly to suggest that lack of competition in that regime validates the test.
The oil majors and the API who DO do testing representative of what's going on in an engine, if they thought that such tests had any proof, they would be all over it, and the API standard tests would resemble it...rather than the much more expensive actual engine tests.
Yes, they do bench testing...to screen out lubricant and additive combinations that are likely to do well in the actual tests.
Then do ACTUAL REPRESENTATIVE testing.
It's just silly to suggest that lack of competition in that regime validates the test.
The oil majors and the API who DO do testing representative of what's going on in an engine, if they thought that such tests had any proof, they would be all over it, and the API standard tests would resemble it...rather than the much more expensive actual engine tests.
Yes, they do bench testing...to screen out lubricant and additive combinations that are likely to do well in the actual tests.
Then do ACTUAL REPRESENTATIVE testing.
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Not much is different... 20w50 is ranked 91 in a wear protection test whereas the 15w50 is ranked 111 and viscosity at running temp are the same...
91. 20W50 Mobil 1 V-Twin 4 Cycle Motorcycle Oil, API SJ, synthetic = 75,855 psi
zinc = 1745 ppm
phos = 1598 ppm
moly = 82 ppm
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt 19.9
111. 15W50 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 70,235 psi
zinc = 1,133 ppm
phos = 1,168 ppm
moly = 83 ppm
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt 19.8
HTHS is typically a better indicator of wear in bearings, pistons, rings...those oils aren't "the same".
Not much is different... 20w50 is ranked 91 in a wear protection test whereas the 15w50 is ranked 111 and viscosity at running temp are the same...
91. 20W50 Mobil 1 V-Twin 4 Cycle Motorcycle Oil, API SJ, synthetic = 75,855 psi
zinc = 1745 ppm
phos = 1598 ppm
moly = 82 ppm
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt 19.9
111. 15W50 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 70,235 psi
zinc = 1,133 ppm
phos = 1,168 ppm
moly = 83 ppm
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt 19.8
HTHS is typically a better indicator of wear in bearings, pistons, rings...those oils aren't "the same".
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