American V12

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Has anyoneon native soil built a V12 supercar or race car?


If the USA ever wants to go circuit racing, I think we could use a V4 on a motorcycle and a V12 in a automobile.


Why is Formular Won Vee tens? Vee tens are dumb. We need even number, not Honda V5 or Colorado I5!
 
The Vector M12 was American, but a Lamborghini engine, unfortunately.

Ryan Falconer built an SBC based V12 that was good enough,,a Porsche race engineer nearly lost his job for putting one into a Porsche race car and declaring it faster than the engine Porsche gave him.

Formula one has been everything. Turbo 4, V12, gas turbine, whatever.
 
I think the closest thing to a production V16 was the Cadillac in modern times they also messed around with a V12. If one ever gets into production is anyone’s guess.
 
F1 no longer uses V10s, since 2014 they have used 1.6L turbo V6s. They originally went from V12s to smaller V10s back in 2000 because the V12 cars in the 90's were getting way too fast. Kinda like when WRC went from 2.0 to 1.6L. As technology improves they've had to reduce displacement to keep cars from being total deathtraps.
 
Engine designers will ask what the engine will be used for and then decide on the configuration. Even in the unlimited Cam Am series only Porsche used a 12. 500 cu inch V8s were common.
 
Not really race cars or what we'd think of as supercars in modern terms, but V-12s were pretty common in quality cars in the interwar period.
Off the top of my head, Cadillac, Lincoln, Packard and Pierce Arrow all offered V-12s while both Cadillac and Marmon offerd V-16s.
IIRC, the Cadillac V-16 was the first application in which hydraulic lifters were used.
 
Can you expound a bit on why V10's are "Dumb"?


UD
 
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V-10s are dumb because of engine balance considerations. A V-10 will end up with a rotating vibrational couple at twice crank speed. The only way to counter that is with a balance shaft at twice crank speed.

A V-8 with 90 degree crank throws has a residual vibration couple at crank speed; this is countered with weights on either end of the crank. The V-10 also has this residual couple and deals with it the same way.

A V-12 with 60 degree crank throws is basically two inline 6 engines. An inline 6 will run without any primary or secondary imbalances, either vibration or rocking. Therefore, two of them together have no residual primary or secondary couples.

A V-16 is just two V-8s end to end; the residual couples of the 8's cancel. You can also look at it as two straight 8 engines; the straight 8 runs smooth just like the straight 6.

A V-14, just like a V-10, will be plagued by the secondary rotational couple (twice crank speed).

A V6 is just hopeless. You cannot balance all the engine forces; best you can do is a 90 degree engine with a harmonic balancer and a rotational couple at twice crank speed and uneven firing impulses (alternate 30/90 degrees). If you try to even out the firing impulses the imbalances get worse.

For inline engines, an engine of 4 + 2i cylinders where i is a positive integer (6,8,10,12, etc..) will run smoothly.
For V engines, an 8 at 90 or 180 degrees will run smoothly. 8 + 4i cylinders, as above, will run smoothly at any angle between banks.
 
Well...the 6l V12 that Jaguar and Aston used in the 90's and 00's, was basically two Ford duratec 3.0l V6's joined at the crank....
 
Not all v10's need a balance shaft.

The viper engine uses an odd firing order to attain balance, and being a marine engine (in my case) rev far higher and longer than any standard street car engine. if I found a flat pice of water the thing could balance a nickel on the engine case - its like a sewing machine.

The V10 seems to rev quicker than the V8 or 12.

No that engine size matters in a F1 car, but otherwise the 10 fits almost everywhere the BBC does whereas a 12 doesn't really fit in anything.

Anything else other than "balance" ?
 
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Has anyoneon native soil built a V12 supercar or race car?


If the USA ever wants to go circuit racing, I think we could use a V4 on a motorcycle and a V12 in a automobile.


Why is Formular Won Vee tens? Vee tens are dumb. We need even number, not Honda V5 or Colorado I5!

Is this a serious post? What is circuit racing? Why is a V4 or V12 required? Formula One isn't V10s. Why are V10s dumb?
 
I'm deaf in one ear and can't hear with the other one from American built EMD 16-645s and 16-710s.

They make the V12 4-stroke MTUs sound like thumpers.
 
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Has anyoneon native soil built a V12 supercar or race car?


Ever? Does 1932 count? Lincoln made at least two series of V12's in a variety of displacements. They were all flatheads.
 
I have a couple of GMC 702 V12's sitting in my garage. But they are definitely not sports car engines, being big cast-iron beasts that were used to power semi's in the early 60's. They weigh ~1500 pounds and put out 275 HP, but they would last forever. Compared to the diesels of the day, they saved about 1500 pounds out of the truck, but got fantastically bad fuel economy.

GM has dabbled in V12's for cars a few times before. There are a couple of SOHC Cadillac V12's in the Heritage Collection that were designed in the early 70's. And there were some V12 design studies in the 90's that senior designers have told me about. When Bob Lutz was running GM, there was a 7.5L V12 based on North Star cylinder design that got fairly far along. After he retired, I recall he was going to start a sports car company to use it. Never happened, though.

Ryan Falconer's V12 was basically a 400 Chevy with four more cylinders and splayed-valve cylinder heads. His major application for the engine was in the Thunder Mustang sport plane. I talked to him at the 2000 Miami Boat Show when I was showing the Torque Engineering V12, and he was pretty proud of the fact that they had durability tested one of the engines up to 50 hours with the reduction gear and prop. There is a Corvette in the National Corvette Museum that has a Falconer V12 in it. It was extended by 8 inches between the windshield and front wheelwell to fit the V12.

And there was Dan Gurney with the Gurney-Weslake V12 that was used to power his F1 car in 1967. He won with it at Spa, and that is the only time in history that an American driver in an American-built car has won an F1 race.
 
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Originally Posted By: ksp7498
F1 no longer uses V10s, since 2014 they have used 1.6L turbo V6s. They originally went from V12s to smaller V10s back in 2000 because the V12 cars in the 90's were getting way too fast. Kinda like when WRC went from 2.0 to 1.6L. As technology improves they've had to reduce displacement to keep cars from being total deathtraps.


Actually many F1 engines makers were already using the V10 layout well before it was made mandatory. The dominant Renault engine of the 90's was always a V10 even there were competitors engines in V8 and V12 configurations. Ferrari was the last of the V12 producers and while it topped the power charts, the lighter and more compact V10 ended up being the layout that all were using by the time it was made mandatory in 2000.
 
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