Would you sacrifice engine life......

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: expat
But what if you were the manufacturer?


I couldn't be a manufacturer because I'm too honest.

I couldn't in good conscience recommend people use 0W-20 or 5W-20.

 

[stchman]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Need to quantify this question.

I'd sacrifice engine life from 500k miles to 400k miles to go from 40mpg to 50mpg.

I'd not sacrifice engine life from 250k miles to 200k miles to go from 40mpg to 50mpg.


10MPG extra over 50K miles would net you $625 in your pocket, more than a car with 250K miles is going to be worth.

 

[stchman]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: expat
But what if you were the manufacturer?


I couldn't be a manufacturer because I'm too honest.

I couldn't in good conscience recommend people use 0W-20 or 5W-20.


And why? All of your automobile manufacturing and engine design lead you to this conclusion?

 

[Snoman002]

Starting increased wear would decrease fuel economy more than the gains by thinner oil only assumes the wear happens at light operation and steady loading. There may not be additional wear when cruising down the highway, when mpg matters most, but there may be additional wear on cold starts, or under full throttle operation. Conditions most passenger cars operate in.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: expat
But what if you were the manufacturer?


I couldn't be a manufacturer because I'm too honest.

I couldn't in good conscience recommend people use 0W-20 or 5W-20.


Originally Posted By: stchman
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: expat
But what if you were the manufacturer?


I couldn't be a manufacturer because I'm too honest.

I couldn't in good conscience recommend people use 0W-20 or 5W-20.


And why? All of your automobile manufacturing and engine design lead you to this conclusion?


He just doesn't know..

 

[Vikas]

Originally Posted By: Shannow

Nope, the lowest friction point is at a higher wear level than the lowest wear level.

It occurs just as hydrodynamic lubrication is ceasing, and when the boundary lubrication, and additives kick in.

Problem with statements that "feel" right is that they are often wrong.

Can you explain this better? I mean if you are going to claim "water is not wet", you do have to give little bit more rigorous explanation than brushing it off saying "feel" is often wrong.

 

[virginoil]

Should be renamed The Seinfeld Thread the one about nothing and leading nowhere.

Come and express your
1. BITOG frustrations
2. BITOG joy
3. pleasures on fantasy island
4. obsession to watch grass grow / paint dry
5. admiration for watching oil jugs at the auto store and smelling freshly open oil jugs
6. stockpiling in anticipation of the electric car replacing current design
7. secret ambition to become a BITOG troll or
8. other

 

[SteveSRT8]

Zzzzzzzz... gosh this place is repetitive.

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Originally Posted By: Shannow

Nope, the lowest friction point is at a higher wear level than the lowest wear level.

It occurs just as hydrodynamic lubrication is ceasing, and when the boundary lubrication, and additives kick in.

Problem with statements that "feel" right is that they are often wrong.

Can you explain this better? I mean if you are going to claim "water is not wet", you do have to give little bit more rigorous explanation than brushing it off saying "feel" is often wrong.


I'll have a go:

You might THINK that when an oil film breaks down to the point where metal is on metal, Friction or Drag whould be higher.

Apparently, that's not the case. It actually takes more power, meaning there is more friction or drag when the engine parts are NOT in contact, but are riding on the oil film.

However the trade off for that (little) extra friction is a (little) wear on the moving parts.

So, how much are we talking about?

Probably, ideally, not much.

The extra friction, or drag, of maintaining a boundry layer MAY amount to .5% drop in fuel consumption.

Verses extra wear on an engine that runs (at times ) metal to metal, which might be more difficult to quantify.

Climate and useage will also play a big part.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: expat
Would you sacrifice a small amount of your engines life expectancy for a small gain in fuel ecconomy?

You're assuming there has to be a sacrifice, but despite movement toward thinner oils, today's engines last longer than ever. If there is a sacrifice (there may be), it's likely irrelevant.




wish the transmissions were as durable....

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: lexus114
wish the transmissions were as durable....

Yeah, no kidding. Or that bodies would not rust as quickly, for those who live up north.

 

[Joenpb]

it's tough going against OEM recommendations for oil viscosity. If I did decide to change viscosity, I'd have a UOA done to ensure all was well. Thicker oil is not always better if it doesn't flow through the cam/s correctly.

I've also noticed that the 5w20 oil I started with was a 5w30 by the time the UOA was done. My car (Mustang) has a fair amount of PCV blowby.

 

[hattaresguy]

I'm terrible worried, if I use 20W50 will it make me feel better?

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
I'm terrible worried, if I use 20W50 will it make me feel better?


Absolutely!

 

[Vikas]

Quote:
Apparently, that's not the case. It actually takes more power, meaning there is more friction or drag when the engine parts are NOT in contact, but are riding on the oil film.
Is this actually printed somewhere in reputable textbooks or in peer review journals? Once again, extra ordinary claims needs to be well-documented rather than telling us "take my word for it". Even better, how about a link to real experiment demonstrating what you are claiming?

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: NHGUY
I wonder about Mazda SkyActiv engines.Bearings are smaller,less drag on rings...I want to see one at 150K miles that isn't pushing oil or knocking.


I have almost 19,000 miles on a 2015 Mazda 3. I've been using Mobil 1 0w20 EP. I am changing it out this weekend and going with 5w30.

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Quote:
Apparently, that's not the case. It actually takes more power, meaning there is more friction or drag when the engine parts are NOT in contact, but are riding on the oil film.
Is this actually printed somewhere in reputable textbooks or in peer review journals? Once again, extra ordinary claims needs to be well-documented rather than telling us "take my word for it". Even better, how about a link to real experiment demonstrating what you are claiming?


It's called the Stribeck curve. but the statement needs quantifying. full oil film lubrication CAN require more power, but anything morethan occasional contact causes a LOT of friction (if zddp is needed to form a phosphate film) unless friction modifiers are used.

 

[stchman]

Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
I wonder about Mazda SkyActiv engines.Bearings are smaller,less drag on rings...I want to see one at 150K miles that isn't pushing oil or knocking.


I have almost 19,000 miles on a 2015 Mazda 3. I've been using Mobil 1 0w20 EP. I am changing it out this weekend and going with 5w30.


You do know Mazda recommends a 0W-20 in that particular car? What is your basis on switching to a different viscosity? Does the owner's manual state that you can use a 5W-30?

And because it "feels" right is not a good answer.

 

[RPMster]

Seems pretty simple to me:

1) Use 20 weight oil, drive gently, get better gas mileage with practically immeasurable wear over the life of the vehicle.

2) Use 30 or 40 weight oil, drive it like you stole it, get poor gas mileage, and get better wear protection vs. 20 weight oil.

3) Use 20 weight oil, drive it like you stole it, still get poor gas mileage regardless, and get guaranteed increased wear over the life of the vehicle (compared to using 30 or 40 weight oil).

Why does this need to be complicated?

 

[Joenpb]

Because your theory is likely incorrect. If 20w oil was designed to have optimum flow through the cam, a heavier oil won't flow as well leading to more wear.

Back up your claim with a UOA, otherwise its just as likely to increase wear as prevent it. Each engine is different, what was good for one, may not be for another.