So a 30wt oil was the key to this long live motor huh. Maybe a 20wt wouldn't off last as long
What a 500,000 mile NYC Taxi Valvetrain Looks Like
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Originally Posted By: stchman
Because 99.9% of the start ups and shut downs are when the engine has reached operating temperature.
Those hot-oil start-ups are only worrisome because its low viscosity thin hot oil at zero pressure at first (momentarily), which puts it briefly very much on the left side of the Stribeck curve into mixed or boundary lubrication.
Because 99.9% of the start ups and shut downs are when the engine has reached operating temperature.
Those hot-oil start-ups are only worrisome because its low viscosity thin hot oil at zero pressure at first (momentarily), which puts it briefly very much on the left side of the Stribeck curve into mixed or boundary lubrication.
This is no surprise. Taxis spend a lot of time with their oil at temperatures, with additives fully activated, and viscosity being at optimal. We did oil changes once a month on conventional, and valvetrains were always clean.
Originally Posted By: Best F100
Two questions here:
2) I am still a bit confused. Is this 2.3L, 4 cylinder Mazda designed (and built),
or is it Ford designed (and built)?
My 2010, 2.5L is supposed to be the "beefed up," upgraded version of this
one. Guess I'll be looking at 1,000,000 miles on it one day - you suppose?
This is probably the Ford 2.3L. It is based off of the Mazda MZR but not quite the same. The mazdas have VVT while this 2.3L does not.
Two questions here:
2) I am still a bit confused. Is this 2.3L, 4 cylinder Mazda designed (and built),
or is it Ford designed (and built)?
My 2010, 2.5L is supposed to be the "beefed up," upgraded version of this
one. Guess I'll be looking at 1,000,000 miles on it one day - you suppose?
This is probably the Ford 2.3L. It is based off of the Mazda MZR but not quite the same. The mazdas have VVT while this 2.3L does not.
wemay
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We are talking about 500,000 miles here.... and still, people find a way to marginalize.
Tough crowd.
Tough crowd.
Only foreign hybrids are allowed to receive a fellating for accomplishments.
Originally Posted By: Garak
This is no surprise. Taxis spend a lot of time with their oil at temperatures, with additives fully activated, and viscosity being at optimal. We did oil changes once a month on conventional, and valvetrains were always clean.
Our duty cycle here means our fleet trucks are rarely shut off during a normal 8-12 hour day. And we do get superb engine life with ordinary maintenance. But hook your foreign drivetrain up to a van that weighs about 9200-9500 pounds every single day and drag it around in the city to homes and then use it as a stationary power source for several hours at 1500-1750 rpm and let me know how you do...
This is no surprise. Taxis spend a lot of time with their oil at temperatures, with additives fully activated, and viscosity being at optimal. We did oil changes once a month on conventional, and valvetrains were always clean.
Our duty cycle here means our fleet trucks are rarely shut off during a normal 8-12 hour day. And we do get superb engine life with ordinary maintenance. But hook your foreign drivetrain up to a van that weighs about 9200-9500 pounds every single day and drag it around in the city to homes and then use it as a stationary power source for several hours at 1500-1750 rpm and let me know how you do...
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Our duty cycle here means our fleet trucks are rarely shut off during a normal 8-12 hour day. And we do get superb engine life with ordinary maintenance. But hook your foreign drivetrain up to a van that weighs about 9200-9500 pounds every single day and drag it around in the city to homes and then use it as a stationary power source for several hours at 1500-1750 rpm and let me know how you do...
Sounds like the trucks they use at Stanley Steemer.
Our duty cycle here means our fleet trucks are rarely shut off during a normal 8-12 hour day. And we do get superb engine life with ordinary maintenance. But hook your foreign drivetrain up to a van that weighs about 9200-9500 pounds every single day and drag it around in the city to homes and then use it as a stationary power source for several hours at 1500-1750 rpm and let me know how you do...
Sounds like the trucks they use at Stanley Steemer.
Originally Posted By: satinsilver
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Our duty cycle here means our fleet trucks are rarely shut off during a normal 8-12 hour day. And we do get superb engine life with ordinary maintenance. But hook your foreign drivetrain up to a van that weighs about 9200-9500 pounds every single day and drag it around in the city to homes and then use it as a stationary power source for several hours at 1500-1750 rpm and let me know how you do...
Sounds like the trucks they use at Stanley Steemer.
Comparable but SS trucks are proprietary. Ours are far more powerful and versatile, and have excellent resale due to their design.
http://www.butlersystem.com/
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Our duty cycle here means our fleet trucks are rarely shut off during a normal 8-12 hour day. And we do get superb engine life with ordinary maintenance. But hook your foreign drivetrain up to a van that weighs about 9200-9500 pounds every single day and drag it around in the city to homes and then use it as a stationary power source for several hours at 1500-1750 rpm and let me know how you do...
Sounds like the trucks they use at Stanley Steemer.
Comparable but SS trucks are proprietary. Ours are far more powerful and versatile, and have excellent resale due to their design.
http://www.butlersystem.com/
Amazing. Thanks for posting. I wonder why 0W-20 is not spec'd for this application? I thought most hybrids were 0w-20 because of the frequency of the start stop and the incredibly high number of starts that a hybrid will do compared to a normal engine and the need for oil to circulate immediately upon starting. I'm pretty sure most Honda and Toyota hybrids spec 0w-20. But, obviously the 5w-30 did pretty darn good here. I would like to see the suspension and transmission on this vehicle though. NYC streets are pretty rough as I recall.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
But hook your foreign drivetrain up to a van that weighs about 9200-9500 pounds every single day and drag it around in the city to homes and then use it as a stationary power source for several hours at 1500-1750 rpm and let me know how you do...
That's pretty much it. Even in the taxis, the weak point was the transmission. They got rebuilt more often than engines.
But hook your foreign drivetrain up to a van that weighs about 9200-9500 pounds every single day and drag it around in the city to homes and then use it as a stationary power source for several hours at 1500-1750 rpm and let me know how you do...
That's pretty much it. Even in the taxis, the weak point was the transmission. They got rebuilt more often than engines.
Automatics will always be the weak link due to all the rubber and polymer seals. It is amazing that they last as long as they do. Difficult to change fluids that can not be easily checked and topped off does not help. Even in 1 ton trucks the transmission and body will wear out and need work long before a maintained engine will.
I am thinking the OCI is based more on hours of operation the 3 week mark is prob. the number of days required for most of the fleet to accumulate that number of hours.
With regard to domestic engines and durability as compared to those not made domestically that is just ignorant. A lot of engines in brands associated with the USA have engines or major engine components not made in the USA.Likewise some brands that small minds do not associate with domestic brands in spite of the amount of domestic content are in fact made in the USA. Things are not that simple and black and white in the auto industry today.
With regard to durability I think Toyota and Lexus V8's and V10 have proven themselves as durable and powerful. We have had reports from fleet operators in the mining industry that have indicated that on this site.
A solid engine outside of racing is not a hard thing to do. It just depends on how much money you are willing to leave on the table. The more rigid the bottom end the better. The better the harmonics are balanced out the better.
I am thinking the OCI is based more on hours of operation the 3 week mark is prob. the number of days required for most of the fleet to accumulate that number of hours.
With regard to domestic engines and durability as compared to those not made domestically that is just ignorant. A lot of engines in brands associated with the USA have engines or major engine components not made in the USA.Likewise some brands that small minds do not associate with domestic brands in spite of the amount of domestic content are in fact made in the USA. Things are not that simple and black and white in the auto industry today.
With regard to durability I think Toyota and Lexus V8's and V10 have proven themselves as durable and powerful. We have had reports from fleet operators in the mining industry that have indicated that on this site.
A solid engine outside of racing is not a hard thing to do. It just depends on how much money you are willing to leave on the table. The more rigid the bottom end the better. The better the harmonics are balanced out the better.
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Originally Posted By: stchman
Because 99.9% of the start ups and shut downs are when the engine has reached operating temperature.
Those hot-oil start-ups are only worrisome because its low viscosity thin hot oil at zero pressure at first (momentarily), which puts it briefly very much on the left side of the Stribeck curve into mixed or boundary lubrication.
most hybrids spin the ICE to over 1000rpm before injecting fuel, thus preoiling them.
Originally Posted By: stchman
Because 99.9% of the start ups and shut downs are when the engine has reached operating temperature.
Those hot-oil start-ups are only worrisome because its low viscosity thin hot oil at zero pressure at first (momentarily), which puts it briefly very much on the left side of the Stribeck curve into mixed or boundary lubrication.
most hybrids spin the ICE to over 1000rpm before injecting fuel, thus preoiling them.
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
most hybrids spin the ICE to over 1000rpm before injecting fuel, thus preoiling them.
Rotation is rotation, this is similar to dry cranking an engine.
Not good for any engine that is pressure lubed...
most hybrids spin the ICE to over 1000rpm before injecting fuel, thus preoiling them.
Rotation is rotation, this is similar to dry cranking an engine.
Not good for any engine that is pressure lubed...
300 miles / 8 hours? You need to average 37.5 mph every second of the 8 hour period. Given that a cab spends more time waiting at a traffic light and/or for fare, it needs to sprint at over 70mph if it wants to maintain 37.5 average. Most of the fares would be chucking their lunches and besides NYC has no empty stretch where the cab would be able to attain that kind of speed even with spinning tires.
Bottom line? I contest your 300 miles per shift claim.
Bottom line? I contest your 300 miles per shift claim.
You hear most fleet shops use 5w-30 and its even been posted here. Like my local Police use it too in their Ford cars. They say they have less wear. That's what they claim.
Originally Posted By: Jasper8146
Amazing. Thanks for posting. I wonder why 0W-20 is not spec'd for this application? I thought most hybrids were 0w-20 because of the frequency of the start stop and the incredibly high number of starts that a hybrid will do compared to a normal engine and the need for oil to circulate immediately upon starting. I'm pretty sure most Honda and Toyota hybrids spec 0w-20. But, obviously the 5w-30 did pretty darn good here. I would like to see the suspension and transmission on this vehicle though. NYC streets are pretty rough as I recall.
Originally Posted By: Jasper8146
Amazing. Thanks for posting. I wonder why 0W-20 is not spec'd for this application? I thought most hybrids were 0w-20 because of the frequency of the start stop and the incredibly high number of starts that a hybrid will do compared to a normal engine and the need for oil to circulate immediately upon starting. I'm pretty sure most Honda and Toyota hybrids spec 0w-20. But, obviously the 5w-30 did pretty darn good here. I would like to see the suspension and transmission on this vehicle though. NYC streets are pretty rough as I recall.
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Engines last just about forever if you drive them a lot.
I don't think you can compare a taxi regimen that idles for extended periods of time and does most of it's miles in NYC, with the normal daily driver who does mostly Hwy miles.
My point was to get the big mileage or hours on stationary engines you have to use them. Engines rarely wear out most are simply not used much.
Someone who drives 10k miles a year will never see over 500k out of a vehicle.
This is why I crack up about the hand wringing here over a little perceived engine life worrying about this or that. You think those taxi companies give a [censored] about what kind of oil they use? They just change it and run them, a lot! That's how you get those big mileage numbers.
Modern oils are engines are so good its simply a waste of effort to even think about it, especially for the average owner who never really puts any use on their motor.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Engines last just about forever if you drive them a lot.
I don't think you can compare a taxi regimen that idles for extended periods of time and does most of it's miles in NYC, with the normal daily driver who does mostly Hwy miles.
My point was to get the big mileage or hours on stationary engines you have to use them. Engines rarely wear out most are simply not used much.
Someone who drives 10k miles a year will never see over 500k out of a vehicle.
This is why I crack up about the hand wringing here over a little perceived engine life worrying about this or that. You think those taxi companies give a [censored] about what kind of oil they use? They just change it and run them, a lot! That's how you get those big mileage numbers.
Modern oils are engines are so good its simply a waste of effort to even think about it, especially for the average owner who never really puts any use on their motor.
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