There is nothing lower than the 0w destination because that covers the cold cranking viscosity for most of the planet. Maybe on another planet that got below -40C regularly. Some parts of Russia can get this low but not for the whole year.
How Thin Can it go ?
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Originally Posted By: circuitsmith
Originally Posted By: Travis99LS1
So could you have a -5W0 or something? Or is zero the limit? No negative viscosity numbers?
How about 00W10 or 000W5 etc., similar to wire gauges.
Ive been thinking of a negative or minus sign, but I think you have it correct....aka the double alt, like in roulette.
Originally Posted By: Travis99LS1
So could you have a -5W0 or something? Or is zero the limit? No negative viscosity numbers?
How about 00W10 or 000W5 etc., similar to wire gauges.
Ive been thinking of a negative or minus sign, but I think you have it correct....aka the double alt, like in roulette.
I'd say: Filling your sump with only MMO would be as thin as you could get.
Surely you wouldn't want to do this.
~ Triton
Surely you wouldn't want to do this.
~ Triton
Originally Posted By: Triton_330
I'd say: Filling your sump with only MMO would be as thin as you could get.
Surely you wouldn't want to do this.
~ Triton
I don't know wd40 might be thinner. Add some zddp though.
I'd say: Filling your sump with only MMO would be as thin as you could get.
Surely you wouldn't want to do this.
~ Triton
I don't know wd40 might be thinner. Add some zddp though.
Gas turbine engine and highly loaded helicopter transmissions use extremely thin oil. These engines and components last a very, very long time. Wear is generally not an issue.
Kinematic: 24.2 mm2/s (24.2 cSt) at 40°C
Kinematic: 4.97 mm2/s (4.97 cSt) at 100°C
I'd suspect that as design and materials change, the thin oils will perform extremely well.
Kinematic: 24.2 mm2/s (24.2 cSt) at 40°C
Kinematic: 4.97 mm2/s (4.97 cSt) at 100°C
I'd suspect that as design and materials change, the thin oils will perform extremely well.
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Yes, but a jet spins like a turbocharger-unlike a reciprocating piston.
Cujet- I am assuming turbojets can spin higher rpms than a turbofan, but what is a ballpark rpm?
Does altitude change this number?
Cujet- I am assuming turbojets can spin higher rpms than a turbofan, but what is a ballpark rpm?
Does altitude change this number?
In Australia 5w-30 any thinner than this is pointless and a futile exercise due to our climatic conditions.
I just saw some Royal Purple 0W-10 at the Pep Boys website.
Not the quite the same thing, but at my civy work I run turbomolecular vacuum pumps. They can spin anywhere between 10k to 90k RPM.
The bearings are magnetic, the fan rotor shaft levitates in the magnetic field with no physical contact, and no lubrication (which would destroy the vacuum).
The bearings are magnetic, the fan rotor shaft levitates in the magnetic field with no physical contact, and no lubrication (which would destroy the vacuum).
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I don't like comparing with non-automotive applications.
Price point, sump size, temperature range, contaminants... are just not comparable.
Oil flow, oil pressure, oil temperature, and wear surface 'area' are what is being balanced to use those thin oils. Also pushing the change interval, base oil selection, and additive technology with these newer oil specifications.
Waiting on practical affordable turbine-powered cars/motorcycles, or magnetic vacuum wheel/cv/ujoint bearings.... feasible?
Various boutique oils have non-SAE grades(usually racing oils) that are thin. Non-SAE grades need to be defined by the manufacturer.
Too thin oil? parasitic drag from higher volume oil pump, or too cool oil temp from oil coolers, or too much bearing surface area, or overly large sump, or ....
At what point does it stop?
Should I plug in my ATF, oil, PSF, differential, and engine block/coolant heaters when it is 95°F outside, to increase efficiency, efficacy, and reduce cold-start pollution... all while consuming coal/oil/frackedgas/fukushima/chernobyl sourced electricty?
Price point, sump size, temperature range, contaminants... are just not comparable.
Oil flow, oil pressure, oil temperature, and wear surface 'area' are what is being balanced to use those thin oils. Also pushing the change interval, base oil selection, and additive technology with these newer oil specifications.
Waiting on practical affordable turbine-powered cars/motorcycles, or magnetic vacuum wheel/cv/ujoint bearings.... feasible?
Various boutique oils have non-SAE grades(usually racing oils) that are thin. Non-SAE grades need to be defined by the manufacturer.
Too thin oil? parasitic drag from higher volume oil pump, or too cool oil temp from oil coolers, or too much bearing surface area, or overly large sump, or ....
At what point does it stop?
Should I plug in my ATF, oil, PSF, differential, and engine block/coolant heaters when it is 95°F outside, to increase efficiency, efficacy, and reduce cold-start pollution... all while consuming coal/oil/frackedgas/fukushima/chernobyl sourced electricty?
What's thinner than thin? Vapors are thinner than liquids.
Maybe CAFE will force "vapor lubrication" on us.
Maybe CAFE will force "vapor lubrication" on us.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I just saw some Royal Purple 0W-10 at the Pep Boys website.
For racing, ultra thin oils can be utilized, when the parts are going to be replaced frequently, regardless of wear. Very small increases in efficiency can than be gained, but using very thin oil, for a short period between overhauls.
I just saw some Royal Purple 0W-10 at the Pep Boys website.
For racing, ultra thin oils can be utilized, when the parts are going to be replaced frequently, regardless of wear. Very small increases in efficiency can than be gained, but using very thin oil, for a short period between overhauls.
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VacuumW-Air
Originally Posted By: virginoil
In Australia 5w-30 any thinner than this is pointless and a futile exercise due to our climatic conditions.
Why would you say that? I'm in Florida and the engine in my car runs at the same temp regardless of outside conditions because it is liquid cooled and has a thermostat.
In Australia 5w-30 any thinner than this is pointless and a futile exercise due to our climatic conditions.
Why would you say that? I'm in Florida and the engine in my car runs at the same temp regardless of outside conditions because it is liquid cooled and has a thermostat.
Originally Posted By: bigdreama
Originally Posted By: virginoil
In Australia 5w-30 any thinner than this is pointless and a futile exercise due to our climatic conditions.
Why would you say that? I'm in Florida and the engine in my car runs at the same temp regardless of outside conditions because it is liquid cooled and has a thermostat.
Your coolant fans and thermostat control the temperature of your coolant, not necessarily the internal engine components or oil.
Unless you have a heat exchanger for your oil then the oil is cooled through the sump and filter mainly. Outside air temperature plays a big factor here.
Also consider the intake temperature. Now you have a different combustion mixture and timing. Your exhaust gas temperatures are different. So is your turbo coolant or only oil cooled?
Your crankshaft is oil cooled. So are the rod bearings. Are your main bearings cooled by the block and coolant or oil? Probably both.
Originally Posted By: virginoil
In Australia 5w-30 any thinner than this is pointless and a futile exercise due to our climatic conditions.
Why would you say that? I'm in Florida and the engine in my car runs at the same temp regardless of outside conditions because it is liquid cooled and has a thermostat.
Your coolant fans and thermostat control the temperature of your coolant, not necessarily the internal engine components or oil.
Unless you have a heat exchanger for your oil then the oil is cooled through the sump and filter mainly. Outside air temperature plays a big factor here.
Also consider the intake temperature. Now you have a different combustion mixture and timing. Your exhaust gas temperatures are different. So is your turbo coolant or only oil cooled?
Your crankshaft is oil cooled. So are the rod bearings. Are your main bearings cooled by the block and coolant or oil? Probably both.
Thanks for setting bigdreama straight LubeLuke!
How does he know the engine in his car runs at the same temp regarlessmof outside conditions because of liquid cooling.
How about this? At high noon on a day, anyday, in July run your car a few hours on the Interstate at 70mph or so, get home, place on jackstands, and then drain the oil, no needs for gloves. Are you gonna get burnt? Now take your car, at night in December, around the neighborhood until you see your coolant temp 'where it was in the midday summer, go home, apply jackstands, drain oil. Burns a bit less dont it? Quit making false statements!
How does he know the engine in his car runs at the same temp regarlessmof outside conditions because of liquid cooling.
How about this? At high noon on a day, anyday, in July run your car a few hours on the Interstate at 70mph or so, get home, place on jackstands, and then drain the oil, no needs for gloves. Are you gonna get burnt? Now take your car, at night in December, around the neighborhood until you see your coolant temp 'where it was in the midday summer, go home, apply jackstands, drain oil. Burns a bit less dont it? Quit making false statements!
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
How about this? At high noon on a day, anyday, in July run your car a few hours on the Interstate at 70mph or so, get home, place on jackstands, and then drain the oil, no needs for gloves. Are you gonna get burnt? Now take your car, at night in December, around the neighborhood until you see your coolant temp 'where it was in the midday summer, go home, apply jackstands, drain oil. Burns a bit less dont it? Quit making false statements!
Used oil contains carcinogens, so please at least use thin nitrile gloves. It'll still burn, don't you worry. While you're in the area, you might as well check catalytic converter temps too to make sure it's working. I've done that before with a misplaced arm or two.
How about this? At high noon on a day, anyday, in July run your car a few hours on the Interstate at 70mph or so, get home, place on jackstands, and then drain the oil, no needs for gloves. Are you gonna get burnt? Now take your car, at night in December, around the neighborhood until you see your coolant temp 'where it was in the midday summer, go home, apply jackstands, drain oil. Burns a bit less dont it? Quit making false statements!
Used oil contains carcinogens, so please at least use thin nitrile gloves. It'll still burn, don't you worry. While you're in the area, you might as well check catalytic converter temps too to make sure it's working. I've done that before with a misplaced arm or two.
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