More Red Line Specs

[priler]

I got these density numbers directly from Dave. thought i'd share.(especially for you mixing fans looking for specific effects).

@60F(I asked Dave what ASTM method they used,he said he'd have to look it up,but i'm thinking it must be ASTM D4052,but i'm not 100% sure).

5W-40(not the euro one)- .888
10W-40 - .890
5W-50 - .887
10W-50 - .892
10W-60 - .889

...and just to combine with this,the next density numbers are from a thread here back in 2013 titled Red Line: Chemistry Tweaks Across The Street Range.

@60F

5W-20 - .890
5W-30 - .888
10W-30 - .891

do you notice the trend between the same API viscosity weights and the different winter numbers? Dave told me that the 10W-40 and 5W-40 use the very same base and cuts.

Dave also gave me this on the ones I asked about(I don't know if the same for the other weights from the other thread).

moly - 600
Bor - 105
Cal - 2740
Z - 1225
Ph - 1375
SA - 1.2
Sul - .43(I couldn't hear to well when he gave this but I think it's correct,still,i say this incase I heard wrong,the others I got correct for sure).
TBN - 10

I asked about Si,Sod but he said he'd have to look it up,i didn't want to bother him further. he did say Mag should be 0.

I know it would seem this has been done to death but not really,things can change over time for different reasons.

for comparison,here is one of the more recent VOA that a member here had done. this sample should be part of the "tweaks across the street range".

VOA RL 5W-40(not euro version)

moly - 566
pot - 5
bor - 111
sil - 14
sod - 14
cal - 2719
mag - 9
ph - 1090
z - 1181
fp - 440F
cSt@212F - 14.8

a lab can be a little off but note the Z and Ph and their relation to what Dave said.(also the 14.8).

anyway,use to your engines good health. stout stuff that RL.

 

[RazorsEdge]

I've used Redline 0w30 in my Ford Explorer,never had any issues.
I like their oils FWIW.

 

[A_Harman]

Good info. I can use this to update my TSR calculations on Redline. The lower densities will increase the TSR by a couple percent.

Their additive packages are about the strongest you'll see anywhere.

 

[buster]

I kind of wish they made an API SN street/daily driver oil with less ZDP. Otherwise, their oils are good for engines that need higher levels of ZDP (racing/flat tappet engines).

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Good info. I can use this to update my TSR calculations on Redline. The lower densities will increase the TSR by a couple percent.

 

[virginoil]

More specs but no OEM approvals.

I would rather see the approvals.

 

[DeepFriar]

Originally Posted By: buster
I kind of wish they made an API SN street/daily driver oil with less ZDP. Otherwise, their oils are good for engines that need higher levels of ZDP (racing/flat tappet engines).


One of the primary reasons so many in the SR20DE/T community switched to Redline back in the 90's was the cam finger followers (sounds like a bad rock band or maybe the RockerRubbers) simply sliding on the cams. No problems since then unless something actually broke. I'm sold but not an evangelist.

Obviously there are a number of workable solutions but this one is easy to recommend API license or not. Hasn't been an issue in 20+ years and cats (once replaced at 120K miles, $230, now 240k miles and counting) seem to have held up about as expected. Still passes smog today admittedly for OBD-I car of that vintage.

 

[priler]

Originally Posted By: buster
I kind of wish they made an API SN street/daily driver oil with less ZDP. Otherwise, their oils are good for engines that need higher levels of ZDP (racing/flat tappet engines).


well,they do have 2 "euro-series" oils with less ZDP.

some specs on those:

SA - .78%
Ph - 890
Sul - .23%
moly - 120
TBN - 7.2

basically,the add pack reads similar to many (cheap) conventional oils out there and should be fine for certain applications although you still get the high quality base oils with corresponding (better) performance(like HTHS,NOACK,etc.)


I disagree that RL oils are not street/daily driver oils. it depends on what you pour it into,why and what your expectations are. by that,i mean not just simply for racing/flat tappet engines only. they do use high amounts of Z and Ph but not extreme amounts that would cause issues. they do have racing (only) oils just like Mobile 1 does.

obviously there're some engines I wouldn't use it in but there would be specific reasons and spec needs for that.

(older) BMWs,as just one example of many,thrive on RL oil. the rest of the body will corrode away,the entire car can become dilapidated but the internals of the engine can/will be pristine. LOL. on the other hand,if you maintain properly and use preventative methods for all the other issues that a car becomes a junk-pile for,it may just last [censored] near forever(or until you crash it and it's totaled). there're newer cars that will benefit from using RL as well.

 

[priler]

Originally Posted By: virginoil
More specs but no OEM approvals.

I would rather see the approvals.



NO SOUP FOR YOU! LOL.

 

[aquariuscsm]

How well respected are Redline's rear diff oils? I've never known anyone who's used them.

 

[priler]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
How well respected are Redline's rear diff oils? I've never known anyone who's used them.


highly respected. they are considered an upgrade,if applicable,to most anything "approved".

if you want to see an endless list of people using them,go to almost any individual car brand forum. try a BMW forum.

I always use them in all the cars I've ever bought when changing out the first time. from Mazda RX-7 to MB to Mustangs to BMWs. I've used their differential oils in 20+ cars over the years,even before I paid more attention to their engine oils. they're #1 for this as far as i'm concerned. needless to say I've never had a problem. new seals(if needed),in it goes and I forget about it.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: buster
I kind of wish they made an API SN street/daily driver oil with less ZDP.


Same here, but while keeping the moly, boron, and calcium levels very high, and also increasing the VI across the 'street' line up, with the latest, greatest, non-shearing, VIIs out there.

LOL

 

[boxcartommie22]

when I spoke with their chemist he stated that red line disagrees with the api...red line will never make a cheapened oil!! wants red line to be superior to all other oils

 

[robertcope]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
How well respected are Redline's rear diff oils? I've never known anyone who's used them.


I use their diff and transmission fluids in all my vehicles, including my race car. I can't say that it's performed any better than anything else, though.

robert

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
when I spoke with their chemist he stated that red line disagrees with the api...red line will never make a cheapened oil!! wants red line to be superior to all other oils

I think Red Line makes great products. However, I don't see how the rest of the argument follows. The API isn't in the business of "cheapening" oils. And I don't see how meeting one approval or another makes for an inferior oil. One can't just grab a random Red Line product and state it's superior to every other oil in every application.

 

[DeepFriar]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
when I spoke with their chemist he stated that red line disagrees with the api...red line will never make a cheapened oil!! wants red line to be superior to all other oils

I think Red Line makes great products. However, I don't see how the rest of the argument follows. The API isn't in the business of "cheapening" oils. And I don't see how meeting one approval or another makes for an inferior oil. One can't just grab a random Red Line product and state it's superior to every other oil in every application.


I agree. What a hokey reason for avoiding API. I do wonder why they don't. Would it mean giving some material or process away? It can't be the cost and there isn't much likelihood they would not pass. Not certifying doesn't really build any marketing cache since they clearly label these as street oils while warning not to use their race oil in street use. That is unlike Motul 300V with a stated 12% street addpack which makes it obviously dual use. I don't understand it and wish I did. They undoubtedly have very good reasons whatever they are.

 

[mjoekingz28]

Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
when I spoke with their chemist he stated that red line disagrees with the api...red line will never make a cheapened oil!! wants red line to be superior to all other oils



That just seems great! They seem to be refusing extra sales to maintain a good item.

 

[Shannow]

API sets minimum standards, doesn't force anyone to make a lesser product.

IMO, the only reason that you wouldn't get approvals is if you are in the business of basestock shopping, and don't want to have to recertify every time there's a change.

 

[deven]

Red Line is geared more towards the racing crowds. No Joe schmoe with a regular car is going to use red line oil at $11 a quart, very few will. Due to this their add pack is more robust and will not pass API tests unless it's their Euro oils 5w40 or 5w30. Whenever I am at the track I make it a point to ask other drivers about their oil preference and many are using Red Line 5w30.

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
API sets minimum standards, doesn't force anyone to make a lesser product.

IMO, the only reason that you wouldn't get approvals is if you are in the business of basestock shopping, and don't want to have to recertify every time there's a change.



Wait a minute. Don't they limit zddp?