Piston prop air cooled oils

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Phillips XC 15W50 and Cam Guard additive will protect your Lycoming IO-360 very well. That would be my choice.
 
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Phillips XC 15W50 and Cam Guard additive will protect your Lycoming IO-360 very well. That would be my choice.



This! But is actually labeled as 20W50. Aviation Consumer News picked the Phillips XC 20W50 + CamGuard combo as their preferred oil.
 
Synthetics also don't adhere to the metal as much (polarity) and thus a non-synthetic petroleum oil like Phillips might be better protection against corrosion on airplanes that don't fly quite as often as we'd like.
 
I've read as many of the "expert" opinions as I can. And, I disagree. At least for my operation and those that I know.

While using Aeroshell 100, I (and many other Lycoming users) had multiple sticking exhaust valve issues. Not so with Aeroshell 15W-50 semi-syn.

In addition, the internal corrosion issues are reduced with the 15W-50 Aeroshell, vs any conventional oil. The myth that "thick" oil remains on the parts better is just that. At aircraft operating temperatures, the oil is water thin and drains off rapidly.

Here is a picture of my 1700 hour camshaft with Phillips 20W-50 oil and 25 hour oil changes:

DSC00149_resize_with_arrow.jpg


Another data point. A recently removed original Lycoming cylinder with 1900 hours from new, was worn beyond limits. Oil used, Aeroshell 100, 40-50 hour oil changes.

We don't see that level of wear with Aeroshell 15W-50 semi synthetic and 25 hour oil changes.
 
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I compiled AeroShell Piston and Turbine Oil Properties...

AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4 10w40 @40C 94.2cSt @100C 14.4cSt
AeroShell Oil 15W-50 @40C 140cSt @100C 19.6cSt
AeroShell Oil 65 (30wt) @40C 90.9cSt @ 100°C 11.8cSt
AeroShell Oil 80 (40wt) @40C 150cSt @100C 14.6cSt
AeroShell Oil 100 (50wt) @40C 230cSt @100C 19.7cSt
AeroShell Oil 120 (60wt) @40C 380cSt @100C 24.8
AeroShell Oil W65 (30wt) @40C 91cSt @100C 12cSt
AeroShell Oil W80 (40wt) @40C 113cSt @100C 14.0cSt
AeroShell Oil W80 Plus (40wt) @40C 113cSt @100C 14.0cSt
AeroShell Oil W100 (50wt) @40C 200cSt @100C 20.2cSt
AeroShell Oil W100 Plus (50wt) @40C 195cSt @100C 19.9cSt
AeroShell Oil W120 (60wt) @40C 270cSt @100C 24.8cSt

Turbine Oil
AeroShell Ascender_TDS @-40C 13000cSt @40C 23cSt @100C 4.90 5.40cSt
AeroShell Turbine Oil 2_ @37C 10.5cSt
AeroShell Turbine Oil 390 @40C 12.9cSt @100C 3.4cSt
AeroShell Turbine Oil 500 @40C 25.2cSt @100C 5.1cSt
AeroShell Turbine Oil 555 @40C 29cSt @100C 5.4cSt
AeroShell Turbine Oil 560 @40C 23cSt @100C 5.2cSt
AeroShell Turbine Oil 750 @40C 36cSt @100C 7.5cSt
 
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
JFYI, they state that synthetic oils are incapable of solubilizing engine contamination and combustion by-products.



The difference between synthetic and mineral oils are the structure of
the molecules and the purity of the oil. Refined crude contains complex
mixtures of different molecule structures and saturates (nitrogen,
sulfur and oxygen). There is no way to select only the best materials
from this mixture. Thus mineral oils contain both the most suitable
materials and the least suitable materials for an engine oil.
Synthetic oils are engineered to tailor molecular with predicable
properties. Because of this, synthetics can have the best properties
of a mineral oil with out the unwanted materials. Due to their uniform
sized molecules they sport two unique advantages over mineral oils...
lower friction coefficients and higher oxidation stability. This means
improved energy efficiency less friction and longer drain intervals

In a traditional Mineral (Dino) oil, the crude molecules varies in size and
composition which gives rise to increase friction and consume more HP.
MineralOil1_zpsb84d032c.jpg


In a fully synthetic oil, the crude molecules are engineered to the same size and
composition which decreases friction and consumes less HP.
SyntheticOil1_zpse53af542.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
JFYI, they state that synthetic oils are incapable of solubilizing engine contamination and combustion by-products.


That's what Mobil found out with Mobil 1, AV-1 synthetic aircraft engine oil.

However, the Aeroshell semi-syn oil contains plenty of conventional oil and, believe it or not, engines remain cleaner with it's use. So it does a great job keeping contamination suspended.

Also note, oil change intervals matter. There comes a time when the oil has become saturated with contaminates. The general rule of thumb is 25 hours without a filter and 50 hours with.

However, oil engineers at Mobil (when I worked there) and from other companies (I speak with them at trade shows) all claim 30 hours is the maximum oil change interval for aircraft engine oils. And that's in a healthy engine. The claim is that at 30 hours, the oil is so full of contaminates, it's performance is reduced.

I can't verify that, but I can say that 25 hour oil changes do come out "Black" as coal, especially on older engines. AND, the drain bucket, if I let it sit till the next oil change, often has a nasty layer of gunk on the bottom. All of which are combustion by products.
 
The problem with the Mobil AV-1 was not that it was "synthetic", but rather that it was based on just PAO, which has poor solvency. Had they blended in some polar synthetic stocks such as esters or ANs they may not have had the issue they did.

Tom NJ
 
I recently did an oil change on our 0320 power Piper Warrior. I used Phillips 20-50, though I like Shell products too.

I normally use some Camguard but the Son has been flying every 2-3 days, which is better than Camguard.

I plan to go back to some Camguard during the Winter. I try to fly at least inside of two weeks. I think frequency of use factors in a lot with corrosion.
 
Originally Posted By: Mr_Joe
I recently did an oil change on our 0320 power Piper Warrior. I used Phillips 20-50, though I like Shell products too.

I normally use some Camguard but the Son has been flying every 2-3 days, which is better than Camguard.

I plan to go back to some Camguard during the Winter. I try to fly at least inside of two weeks. I think frequency of use factors in a lot with corrosion.

will you be my dad ???
 
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
I compiled AeroShell Piston and Turbine Oil Properties...

AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4 10w40 @40C 94.2cSt @100C 14.4cSt
AeroShell Oil 15W-50 @40C 140cSt @100C 19.6cSt
AeroShell Oil 65 (30wt) @40C 90.9cSt @ 100°C 11.8cSt
AeroShell Oil 80 (40wt) @40C 150cSt @100C 14.6cSt
AeroShell Oil 100 (50wt) @40C 230cSt @100C 19.7cSt
AeroShell Oil 120 (60wt) @40C 380cSt @100C 24.8
AeroShell Oil W65 (30wt) @40C 91cSt @100C 12cSt
AeroShell Oil W80 (40wt) @40C 113cSt @100C 14.0cSt
AeroShell Oil W80 Plus (40wt) @40C 113cSt @100C 14.0cSt
AeroShell Oil W100 (50wt) @40C 200cSt @100C 20.2cSt
AeroShell Oil W100 Plus (50wt) @40C 195cSt @100C 19.9cSt
AeroShell Oil W120 (60wt) @40C 270cSt @100C 24.8cSt

Turbine Oil
AeroShell Ascender_TDS @-40C 13000cSt @40C 23cSt @100C 4.90 5.40cSt
AeroShell Turbine Oil 2_ @37C 10.5cSt
AeroShell Turbine Oil 390 @40C 12.9cSt @100C 3.4cSt
AeroShell Turbine Oil 500 @40C 25.2cSt @100C 5.1cSt
AeroShell Turbine Oil 555 @40C 29cSt @100C 5.4cSt
AeroShell Turbine Oil 560 @40C 23cSt @100C 5.2cSt
AeroShell Turbine Oil 750 @40C 36cSt @100C 7.5cSt



I am not understanding how a 15w-50 is thicker at 40C than a 30wt. There are more questionable numbers in that list.
 
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28


I am not understanding how a 15w-50 is thicker at 40C than a 30wt. There are more questionable numbers in that list.


I believe the 15W temp test point would be at some specific cold temperature (possibly -15C) . So, the testing temp is I believe, different than for a 20W or a 5W. The tester being a stirrer that draws a certain, specific current.

In other words, I do think the xx"W" testing temp is not one specific temperature for all grades of oil, but specific for the grade.

The 40C viscosity is just a data point.
 
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28


I am not understanding how a 15w-50 is thicker at 40C than a 30wt. There are more questionable numbers in that list.


Technical speaking the first number (the "15" in 15w50) is only a
relative number which basically indicates how easily it will allow an
engine to "turn over" at low temperatures. It is NOT a viscosity
reference. In other words, a 15w50 is NOT a 15 weight oil in cold
temperatures and a 50 weight oil in warm temperatures...

API ranks the first number 15 and the letter W from the oldest to the
newest on its ability to lube your engine during critical start up
it has no reference to a viscosity...

20w

15W

10W

5W

0W
 
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Cujet's 'real world' experience is valuable, but also seems a puzzle. I've been out of aviation a long time, but experience with older cars/boats and their 'issues'. I've not seen any huge problems with fairly infrequent use. Are you speaking of A/C that are parked on the ramp or hangared? Are there metalurgy issues? I'm thinking of that cam. I was never very impressed with VW type oil filtering screens in aviation myself.
 
I used to work at Canada's largest piston aircraft overhaul shop and we only sold Philips 20w50/25w60. One of the guys who had worked there for years said the aeroshell was too slippery for some of the Lycoming engines and caused some slicked out cylinder issues.
 
Originally Posted By: Lapham3
Cujet's 'real world' experience is valuable, but also seems a puzzle. I've been out of aviation a long time, but experience with older cars/boats and their 'issues'. I've not seen any huge problems with fairly infrequent use. Are you speaking of A/C that are parked on the ramp or hangared? Are there metalurgy issues? I'm thinking of that cam. I was never very impressed with VW type oil filtering screens in aviation myself.


Infrequent use is the bane of aircraft engines. The metallurgy is different from automotive, as I understand it. Corrosion can begin setting up on the internals if not flown often enough. I don't, however, know the definition of "often enough."

When I had my '67 Piper Cherokee 140/160(stc) I ran Aeroshell 15W50 and AvBlend snake oil additive. New owner's pre-purchase insp found a cylinder in the low 60's on compression, granted that is probably unrelated to corrosion as an issue. The FBO where I based liked Phillips XC 20W50 and ran it their rental and training a/c. Or maybe they just got a better deal on it in bulk since they were a Phillips branded FBO.
 
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
...Had they blended in some polar synthetic stocks such as esters or ANs they may not have had the issue they did.

Tom NJ


Ah, their old [automotive] Tri-Syn designation from when was it, about 10-15 yrs ago? That was a great formulation.
 
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