Crazy low NOAC?

[Jake777]

I just noticed this relativly up to date test from PQI showing all 5-20 oils tested by them so far. My question is what is up with the crazy low NOAC for PYB and QSAD? I'm not used to seeing NOAC anywhere that low for conventional oil. Thoughts?

http://www.pqiamerica.com/Feb2014/consolidated5w20ALL.html

 

[901Memphis]

We discussed this previously if you want to dig through the older thread.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3242536/1

 

[wemay]

Thought by many to be an exception rather than the rule. The difference between their own TDS and PQIA is too great. I would doubt the conventional oil's Noack number equals that of PP,PU and QSUD. Possible mixture of some GroupIII in the GroupII vat.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
We discussed this previously if you want to dig through the older thread.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3242536/1

 

[901Memphis]

On page 6 of that thread this is the post that you might want to see.


Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Solarent
There could be multiple reasons for these samples to have lower NOACK's that have nothing to do with GTL stocks.

Care to offer any alternative reasons?


From a formulation standpoint I can think of two ways to decrease NOACK with a GroupII:

1. Use a high percentage of low and medium vis GroupII and a very low percentage of very high viscosity PAO,
2. Use a high percentage of low and medium vis GroupII and a very low percentage of high vis polymer ester.

Of course, there are many combinations of various base oils and additive combos that could accomplish this.

 

[Jake777]

Thanks. Strange to say the least. It's funny. If they could make oil this good why don't they? I know that's a general question but if it's possible to make the oil in range everywhere else and still have that low of a NOAC why don't they. I don't even think PP or PU are that good. Oh well I guess one will never know.

 

[wemay]

Jake- Not busting your chops but it's Noack not Noac.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Well, at least he doesn't call it Novac anymore.

 

[GemStater]

Thanks for re-posting this.

I've got to say that I'm more impressed with SOPUS products everyday. Delivering value-per-dollar that others can't seem to match. And then come the MIRs, PHENOMENAL!

Funny how a few years back I'd a laughed if you told me I'd be putting Pennzoil and Quaker State in my vehicles.

 

[LubricatusObsess]

Originally Posted By: GemStater
Thanks for re-posting this.

I've got to say that I'm more impressed with SOPUS products everyday. Delivering value-per-dollar that others can't seem to match. And then come the MIRs, PHENOMENAL!

Funny how a few years back I'd a laughed if you told me I'd be putting Pennzoil and Quaker State in my vehicles.


+1

Of course, Pennzoil is nothing more than a purchased brand - we're really getting SOPUS product - with the Qatar (sp?) NG liquification facility. I never thought I'd see Mobil 1 equaled or surpassed, but I did.

Using PU & FU now.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: LubricatusObsess
Originally Posted By: GemStater
Thanks for re-posting this.

I've got to say that I'm more impressed with SOPUS products everyday. Delivering value-per-dollar that others can't seem to match. And then come the MIRs, PHENOMENAL!

Funny how a few years back I'd a laughed if you told me I'd be putting Pennzoil and Quaker State in my vehicles.


+1

Of course, Pennzoil is nothing more than a purchased brand - we're really getting SOPUS product - with the Qatar (sp?) NG liquification facility. I never thought I'd see Mobil 1 equaled or surpassed, but I did.

Using PU & FU now.


I'm not sure what metric you've used (other than perhaps the hype on here and the advertising) to come to that conclusion given that the additives used by both brands (SOPUS and XOM) come from Infinium, which they co-own

The high quality Group III base oils that are coming from the Qatar facility seem to be working well for Shell, but that's all they are, Group III base oils, for extreme low temp performance PAO is still a better choice.

 

[wemay]

PYB doesn't meet any certifications the other's don't. Mobil Super, Valvoline, Castrol GTX, etc... All fine API SN/ILSAC GF-5 oils.

 

[pbm]

Originally Posted By: LubricatusObsess
Originally Posted By: GemStater
Thanks for re-posting this.

I've got to say that I'm more impressed with SOPUS products everyday. Delivering value-per-dollar that others can't seem to match. And then come the MIRs, PHENOMENAL!

Funny how a few years back I'd a laughed if you told me I'd be putting Pennzoil and Quaker State in my vehicles.


+1

Of course, Pennzoil is nothing more than a purchased brand - we're really getting SOPUS product - with the Qatar (sp?) NG liquification facility. I never thought I'd see Mobil 1 equaled or surpassed, but I did.

Using PU & FU now.



What's FU?

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: pbm
What's FU?
Fram Ultra of course, or the name of his pet rabbit. If you use Pennz Ultra, you gotta use another "ultra" to match. (Actually wise choices.)

 

[GemStater]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: LubricatusObsess
Originally Posted By: GemStater
Thanks for re-posting this.

I've got to say that I'm more impressed with SOPUS products everyday. Delivering value-per-dollar that others can't seem to match. And then come the MIRs, PHENOMENAL!

Funny how a few years back I'd a laughed if you told me I'd be putting Pennzoil and Quaker State in my vehicles.


+1

Of course, Pennzoil is nothing more than a purchased brand - we're really getting SOPUS product - with the Qatar (sp?) NG liquification facility. I never thought I'd see Mobil 1 equaled or surpassed, but I did.

Using PU & FU now.


The high quality Group III base oils that are coming from the Qatar facility seem to be working well for Shell, but that's all they are, Group III base oils, for extreme low temp performance PAO is still a better choice.


I agree with you OVERKILL. However, the thing I've come to appreciate is factoring in performance-per-dollar. Getting older I guess. For example, I used to be a big Amsoil fan. Still am, but within reason. When one takes into consideration things like Preferred Customer costs, shipping costs, sales tax, the flip side being mail-in-rebates and purchasing the 5 quart jug from Walmart, the advantage for the average motorist may be, well, overkill

Love the 5W-30 PQIA numbers:

Product---------------------------------------PP-------------Amsoil_SS---------------QSUD

Noack Volatility (ASTM D5800)----------------- 9.10----------------7.6-------------------8.8

CCS Viscosity (ASTM D5293)-------------------4080--------------3398-------------------4184

Total Base Number (ASTM D2896)---------------9.02--------------12.8-------------------8.5

Viscosity Index (ASTM D2270)-----------------171---------------171--------------------172

So yes, the PAO boutique oil is "better", but that marginal advantage comes at a greater cost. One must ask, what's it worth to you?

 

[wemay]

PP's Noack went up when it became Pennzoil Plat Pure Plus GTL (PPPP), after that pqia test for synthetics, to the point where they removed it from their TDS. Noack is just one of many important values to consider when choosing an oil, and PPPP is a good oil no doubt. I would just warn against attributing mythical status to it or any other motor oil.

 

[Jake777]

Lol. Sorry guys. Thanks for correcting me. I'm new at this.

 

[Jake777]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Well, at least he doesn't call it Novac anymore.

Noack, Noack, Noack. Ok I think I got it.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: Jake777
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Well, at least he doesn't call it Novac anymore.

Noack, Noack, Noack. Ok I think I got it.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: GemStater
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: LubricatusObsess
Originally Posted By: GemStater
Thanks for re-posting this.

I've got to say that I'm more impressed with SOPUS products everyday. Delivering value-per-dollar that others can't seem to match. And then come the MIRs, PHENOMENAL!

Funny how a few years back I'd a laughed if you told me I'd be putting Pennzoil and Quaker State in my vehicles.


+1

Of course, Pennzoil is nothing more than a purchased brand - we're really getting SOPUS product - with the Qatar (sp?) NG liquification facility. I never thought I'd see Mobil 1 equaled or surpassed, but I did.

Using PU & FU now.


The high quality Group III base oils that are coming from the Qatar facility seem to be working well for Shell, but that's all they are, Group III base oils, for extreme low temp performance PAO is still a better choice.


I agree with you OVERKILL. However, the thing I've come to appreciate is factoring in performance-per-dollar. Getting older I guess. For example, I used to be a big Amsoil fan. Still am, but within reason. When one takes into consideration things like Preferred Customer costs, shipping costs, sales tax, the flip side being mail-in-rebates and purchasing the 5 quart jug from Walmart, the advantage for the average motorist may be, well, overkill

Love the 5W-30 PQIA numbers:

Product---------------------------------------PP-------------Amsoil_SS---------------QSUD

Noack Volatility (ASTM D5800)----------------- 9.10----------------7.6-------------------8.8

CCS Viscosity (ASTM D5293)-------------------4080--------------3398-------------------4184

Total Base Number (ASTM D2896)---------------9.02--------------12.8-------------------8.5

Viscosity Index (ASTM D2270)-----------------171---------------171--------------------172

So yes, the PAO boutique oil is "better", but that marginal advantage comes at a greater cost. One must ask, what's it worth to you?


Problem is, if you look at the most recent PD Sheets for the SOPUS products, they no longer have the extremely low NOACK.