California Gas Prices Up 45 Cents. Why?

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Originally Posted By: Benito
The spikes and price differences are unprecedented.

Unprecedented? One should go back further than three years to see if the spikes are unprecedented. To see if the differences are unprecedented, it might not hurt to wait to see if the rest of the country catches up or if California drops back off. Anecdotally, we've had weird rises that ended up disappearing, plus having more shaved off the price, and vice versa.
 
You can go back 11 years on the link I provided.

But it sounds like you didn't even examine the graph for the last 3 years let alone 11.

I've done both and came to the conclusion that I did. The graph just becomes harder to read so I settled on providing links to 18 months and 3 years because they more clearly show that the price differentials for most of 2015 are unprecedented.
 
I examined the graphs you presented, and I stand by my assessment. And the difference in prices between California and the rest of the nation certainly can't be assessed until there's an opportunity for the rest of the country to catch up or California to start dropping again.
 
California's living cost is so high, gas is cheap compare to living in a good neighborhood near where you work.

With so many people still buying SUVs and trucks by choice instead of by need, I think the gas price is not that big of a deal to a lot of people.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
The majority of Californians are the only people in the whole world stupid enough to vote in tax increases on themselves.I won't talk about how corrupt the government is as that may be considered political.

Move to Colorado Springs, and you will see what happens when people constantly refuse to increase taxes to necessary level.
1. 2013 4 people die in unprecedented flood that are result of Waldo Canyon Fire. City proposes Storm Water tax increase, where city would have enough money to mitigate storm water. Voters refuse. Same problem in 2014, a lot bigger problem in 2015.
2. Voters constantly refuse to increase sales tax (currently in Colo. Spgs is 7.63%). Roads? I have been several times in Moldova, and they are better. Suddenly, when literally peoples wheels started to fall off, everyone is attacking city for NOT HAVING enough money and not doing repairs fast enough. So again we have referendum in November to increase sales tax 0.63%, hopefully it will pass, but considering Colo. Spgs is 4th most conservative metropolitan area in the U.S, I still have my doubts.
Good thing, and apparently it had to come to this, businesses joined up and threatened that they will stop expanding and move away if something is not done.
3. New study said that average driver in Colorado spends $723 on repairs that are direct consequence of bad roads. For a lot of people here apparently mathematics is big problem, since $723 is much more then $100, what would be additional taxes if new sales tax is passed in November, PER FAMILY of four (which probably has at least two cars).
I lived in san Diego, those roads (although not good also) are autobahn compare to Colorado.
 
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Originally Posted By: Garak
I examined the graphs you presented, and I stand by my assessment. And the difference in prices between California and the rest of the nation certainly can't be assessed until there's an opportunity for the rest of the country to catch up or California to start dropping again.


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Sorry but that doesn't make sense. You acknowledge there is a price difference but you can't assess it until the price changes?

There's been a weird price difference for SIX months now!

http://www.CaliforniaGasPrices.com/retai...36&units=us
 
What I mean is you have to wait and see what happens elsewhere, and that sometimes takes time. If the rest of the country follows suit two weeks to a month later, that skews the data if you play with it too early. Then, what happens if California drops first, and the rest of the country follows suit a month later? You can't assess data until it's all in. As for there being a differential in the first place, no one is disputing that.
 
I don't think you've looked at the data. The results are in.

The differential for the entire last 6 months is way in excess of historical differentials and way in excess of the differential due to CA gas regulations and taxes.

Nobody is playing with the data too early, as you say "2 weeks to a month later". You can see the data clearly over the entire last 6 months.
 
As an example, my understanding is that what usually is a difference of three additional cents a gallon charged to Chevron and a couple others due to additives and supply chain issues has been averaging around 30 cents a gallon more since April or May which has never happened before. I don't know how much the multiple refinery issues and apparently exporting at record amounts adds to the differential but I'm sure it's sizable. Pennsylvania pays more in gasoline taxes though so Sacramento still has something to strive for.....
 
I wasn't talking about the entire period. Yes, a trend is visible there, but you mentioned the "unprecedented" bit with respect to the tail end of the data, and that's not an appropriate way to analyze it.
 
What is the appropriate way to analyze it?

The data is right there, so perhaps you can give an opinion based on available data rather than just tell me I'm wrong!
 
I'm only saying to wait a little bit and see how and if the rest of the country follows. I understand your point - the spread appears to be growing, and it looks "unprecedented" at that last moment shown on the graph. When we're dealing with historical data like this and we want to call something current unprecedented, we just want to make sure there isn't a lag in the response, as it were, elsewhere. As I had mentioned earlier, about pricing in this city, a few statistical anomalies have really changed the apparent picture of fuel pricing in this city, but only the apparent picture.

Prices used to move in virtual lockstep. If you saw one station go up before your very eyes, and you wanted to pay the old price, you would have had to find another station in the next few minutes and hope they didn't change before ou got there. After about an hour or so, every station in the city would be exactly the same (aside from a couple independent outliers). At that time, Gasbuddy would always show Regina as having virtually no spread. In fact, the independent outliers would often have the same price on the pump as everyone else, but just have a rebate when you paid. Of course, they would be characterized by Gasbuddy as having exactly the same price as everyone else, based on posted price.

Now, we have a Costco gas station in this end of town, and it's served to lower prices in the city, and also to adjust how quickly they move. The Co-op likes to raise first (and lower last), and price increases happen sooner the further away one is from Costco, and the closest stations to Costco increase their prices last, assuming Costco goes along with the increase. However, once that happens, every station in the city is once again at the exact same price; sometimes, though, the independents don't give rebates, but show a lower price on the sign. Now, though, Gasbuddy calls us the city with the biggest spread in the country. Prices stabilized a couple days ago, and virtually every station has identical pricing, yet we still apparently have the biggest average spread in the country.

Edmonton and Calgary, which are also so characterized with having big spreads, actually do, historically have big spreads, with slightly different prices at every station you pass. That never happens here. The only difference is one station might be on the old price, and one on the new price. That's as far as differences go here.
 
A friend once called California..."Land of fruits and nuts"....it does seem to be the case...
 
Originally Posted By: pbm
A friend once called California..."Land of fruits and nuts"....it does seem to be the case...
California the land of earthquakes and idiots is the more modern slogan I am seeing on some web sites.
 
Originally Posted By: bruno
The Granola State .... when you get rid of the fruits and nuts all you have left are the flakes .
Perfect !!!
 
Naw, I live here - it's the Kalifonia Komunist Kollective
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Wanna fix air pollution, global warming, and the national debt - slap a $2.50/gal; tax on at the federal level and watch the roads empty and the air get crystal clean.

Also watch the sales of Tesla's take off to the moon
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Transport is a HUGE consumer of petroleum. We are going to be 50M people in Kalifornia by 2050. Prolly have 50M cars and trucks too.

You're right that no new refineries have been built in 30 years. And there is no location in the state where the NYMBY's will let one go in. Mexico is looking at building NAFTA refining capacity and bringing it in across the border ...

There's money to be made in the Golden State - by someone who can figure this out ...
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: Benito
The actual reason for the latest spike in Southern CA is a delay in imported product reaching Southern California. Northern CA is not as affected.

They are having to import more than usual because refineries are still operating below capacity. That's something that has been going on for months now.

Those who talk about regulations, taxes, more demand have just been brainwashed. CA uses less gas now than 10 years ago. It is a huge market and should have enough reliable supply and capacity. The price differential due to taxes and CA requirements is far less than the actual premium CA consumers pay.

There are 3 main reasons CA gas price are higher than national average:

1. Special formula that costs about 10-15 cents extra per gallon.

2. Higher tax, on average we pay about 25-30 cents more tax per gallon. We have state excise tax and sale tax of whole sale price(tax over tax). This higher tax and special formula combined makes our price about $50-70 cents higher than national average most of the time.

3. Limited supply, since we have special formula not many out of state refineries can product our blends, and lately they didn't ship as much as the last few years into California. There are few refineries in state and no new one had been built for more than 30 years, any disruption in supply will cause price spike substantially.

Yes, the oil companies do take advantage of the low supply to charge more for gasoline they sell to distributors, but when they try to expand their facilities they had a very hard time to get permit.
Good job debunking the standard issue "It ain't our fault" line! +1
 
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Originally Posted By: Chris142
$3.89 for regular this morning. Diesel was still $2.89


Chevron was 2.69 here in Bend,Oregon this morning.

California slaps a very heavy State Sales tax on gasoline. We have no sales tax in our state.

I'm glad my family decided to move out of SoCal awhile back. The cost of living is so much less than it was in California.
 
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: Benito
The actual reason for the latest spike in Southern CA is a delay in imported product reaching Southern California. Northern CA is not as affected.

They are having to import more than usual because refineries are still operating below capacity. That's something that has been going on for months now.

Those who talk about regulations, taxes, more demand have just been brainwashed. CA uses less gas now than 10 years ago. It is a huge market and should have enough reliable supply and capacity. The price differential due to taxes and CA requirements is far less than the actual premium CA consumers pay.

There are 3 main reasons CA gas price are higher than national average:

1. Special formula that costs about 10-15 cents extra per gallon.

2. Higher tax, on average we pay about 25-30 cents more tax per gallon. We have state excise tax and sale tax of whole sale price(tax over tax). This higher tax and special formula combined makes our price about $50-70 cents higher than national average most of the time.

3. Limited supply, since we have special formula not many out of state refineries can product our blends, and lately they didn't ship as much as the last few years into California. There are few refineries in state and no new one had been built for more than 30 years, any disruption in supply will cause price spike substantially.

Yes, the oil companies do take advantage of the low supply to charge more for gasoline they sell to distributors, but when they try to expand their facilities they had a very hard time to get permit.
Good job debunking the standard issue "It ain't our fault" line! +1

Supply problem might be solved if rest of the country moves to 10ppm sulfur in 2017, which I hope we will.
 
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