My bad, we do not have Mobil 5000 here and I thought it was a synth oil. I would say, change your oil soon but keep the filter untouched. Honda filter change interval is every other oil change.
To filter change or not to filter change?
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I wouldn't be shocked if the dealer lied. I'm sure they use a bulk oil from a large vendor.
I don't think I could go wrong using Mobil.
I know I'm gonna get hammered for this but.... When I did the OC back in march I put all 5 qts in of the Mobil jug. When I drop the oil this week in gonna see how much of that 5 I get back to compare against what might be in the mirror and filter. Very unscientific but not a bad rough gauge. I'm just gonna do an oil swap this time around, being less than 5k miles on the filter I feel pretty good about it
I don't think I could go wrong using Mobil.
I know I'm gonna get hammered for this but.... When I did the OC back in march I put all 5 qts in of the Mobil jug. When I drop the oil this week in gonna see how much of that 5 I get back to compare against what might be in the mirror and filter. Very unscientific but not a bad rough gauge. I'm just gonna do an oil swap this time around, being less than 5k miles on the filter I feel pretty good about it
Originally Posted By: DrDave
I will know when the filter media has reached saturation as the particle counts will start to come back up. I'll probably change the filter at 45k anyway.
Dang, that's really pushing a filter IMO. Probably the highest FCI I've read on here ever.
I will know when the filter media has reached saturation as the particle counts will start to come back up. I'll probably change the filter at 45k anyway.
Dang, that's really pushing a filter IMO. Probably the highest FCI I've read on here ever.
Just for my own curiosity I will send the filter out for analysis. I use Oil Analysis Lab in Spokane, WA. They offer filter analysis as part of their analytical services. They can flow the filter and provide quantitative measure of pressure differential (restriction). I'll post the report and pictures. It's going to be a few months before I hit the 45k mark.
Dave
Dave
In comparison to the grand scheme of things - such as a city utility bill of $184.44
- replacing the oil filter every OCI - even if it's a FRAM Ultra - is not that costly. Just sayin'.
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
If the olm says to change the oil, isn't there oil in the filter?. And if you take the filter off to dump out the oil in it, why not put a new one on?. The filter has whatever dirt and acids that it removed from the current fill. To me, a new filter makes sense. You don't put your dirty clothes back on after a shower do you?.,,
The filter has become more efficient, and the oil isn't acidic, since the used oil in the filter still has additives in it. No offense, but your post is counter-productive.
//
OP, does your owner's manual require an oil filter change every other interval, like most other Hondas?
I'm going to run my Fram Ultra out to ~20k miles or three intervals on my Civic. It's a good filter that can handle it, IMO.
So if the oil is still serviceable, and the filter still has more life in it, why does the olm and Honda bother to tell you to change it? You will never go wrong changing out a used oil filter. Telling people to run new oil thru a used filter just because you do, that there is counter productive pal.,,,
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
If the olm says to change the oil, isn't there oil in the filter?. And if you take the filter off to dump out the oil in it, why not put a new one on?. The filter has whatever dirt and acids that it removed from the current fill. To me, a new filter makes sense. You don't put your dirty clothes back on after a shower do you?.,,
The filter has become more efficient, and the oil isn't acidic, since the used oil in the filter still has additives in it. No offense, but your post is counter-productive.
//
OP, does your owner's manual require an oil filter change every other interval, like most other Hondas?
I'm going to run my Fram Ultra out to ~20k miles or three intervals on my Civic. It's a good filter that can handle it, IMO.
So if the oil is still serviceable, and the filter still has more life in it, why does the olm and Honda bother to tell you to change it? You will never go wrong changing out a used oil filter. Telling people to run new oil thru a used filter just because you do, that there is counter productive pal.,,,
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
If the olm says to change the oil, isn't there oil in the filter?. And if you take the filter off to dump out the oil in it, why not put a new one on?. The filter has whatever dirt and acids that it removed from the current fill. To me, a new filter makes sense. You don't put your dirty clothes back on after a shower do you?.,,
The filter has become more efficient, and the oil isn't acidic, since the used oil in the filter still has additives in it. No offense, but your post is counter-productive.
//
OP, does your owner's manual require an oil filter change every other interval, like most other Hondas?
I'm going to run my Fram Ultra out to ~20k miles or three intervals on my Civic. It's a good filter that can handle it, IMO.
So if the oil is still serviceable, and the filter still has more life in it, why does the olm and Honda bother to tell you to change it? You will never go wrong changing out a used oil filter. Telling people to run new oil thru a used filter just because you do, that there is counter productive pal.,,,
Honda says to change the oil only at the "A" service and oil and filter at the "B" service. OP needs to read his owners manual to avoid misinformation from the BITOG "experts."
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
If the olm says to change the oil, isn't there oil in the filter?. And if you take the filter off to dump out the oil in it, why not put a new one on?. The filter has whatever dirt and acids that it removed from the current fill. To me, a new filter makes sense. You don't put your dirty clothes back on after a shower do you?.,,
The filter has become more efficient, and the oil isn't acidic, since the used oil in the filter still has additives in it. No offense, but your post is counter-productive.
//
OP, does your owner's manual require an oil filter change every other interval, like most other Hondas?
I'm going to run my Fram Ultra out to ~20k miles or three intervals on my Civic. It's a good filter that can handle it, IMO.
So if the oil is still serviceable, and the filter still has more life in it, why does the olm and Honda bother to tell you to change it? You will never go wrong changing out a used oil filter. Telling people to run new oil thru a used filter just because you do, that there is counter productive pal.,,,
Honda says to change the oil only at the "A" service and oil and filter at the "B" service. OP needs to read his owners manual to avoid misinformation from the BITOG "experts."
How can you say that's "misinformation"? Owners manuals say a lot of things but I'm willing to bet even you don't follow your manuals word for word. I certainly don't. My car does not have an OLM, and states oil changes 7500 miles or 3750 severe. I change oil AND filter at 5K. It's easy to remember and covers the way I drive (alittle of both types). I will not leave an under $10 filter in with new oil. I don't have any way of testing a filter to see if maybe the bypass is distorted and leaking oil or if anything other might be going on because of heat cycles. For me, it's peace of mind and preventive maintenance. I don't see that as misinformation when I recommend this to others.
Originally Posted By: DrDave
The data that I have gathered with all of my vehicles suggests that you are absolutely correct. My benchmark has been particle count at the time of UOA to determine filter efficiency. I change oil in my cars at ~7500 miles. After the first 7500 miles I have a particle count added to the UOA. At the next 7500 mile oil change I now have 15k on the filter. The particle count is much lower, by a factor of 10. At the third 7500 mile interval the particle count is reduced by another significant amount. my Toyota Tacoma with the 2.4L engine at 290k miles is now going on it's fifth 7500 mile oil interval without being changed. The particle counts remain low. I will know when the filter media has reached saturation as the particle counts will start to come back up. I'll probably change the filter at 45k anyway.
The data is absolutely convincing that the oil cleanliness gauged by particle count improves dramatically with longer oil filter change intervals.
After I drain the oil I put 1.5 quarts of fresh oil in the motor and idle it for a minute. Then I drain that oil out. This flushes the filter and the passages in the motor. Now it's just a fill up with fresh oil and I'm confident I've changed nearly all the oil.
Dave
Up till the 1.5 qt thing it sounded fine. I would think you need to do a new filter every time test side by side to be more convincing it is the oil filter alone getting better. When sae efficiency tests are done, I haven't seen anyone publish data on filters getting more efficient as they load up. Waiting until the filter is bypassing 100% or nearly is also a little iffy. I don't know, it seems your method costs a lot of money.
The data that I have gathered with all of my vehicles suggests that you are absolutely correct. My benchmark has been particle count at the time of UOA to determine filter efficiency. I change oil in my cars at ~7500 miles. After the first 7500 miles I have a particle count added to the UOA. At the next 7500 mile oil change I now have 15k on the filter. The particle count is much lower, by a factor of 10. At the third 7500 mile interval the particle count is reduced by another significant amount. my Toyota Tacoma with the 2.4L engine at 290k miles is now going on it's fifth 7500 mile oil interval without being changed. The particle counts remain low. I will know when the filter media has reached saturation as the particle counts will start to come back up. I'll probably change the filter at 45k anyway.
The data is absolutely convincing that the oil cleanliness gauged by particle count improves dramatically with longer oil filter change intervals.
After I drain the oil I put 1.5 quarts of fresh oil in the motor and idle it for a minute. Then I drain that oil out. This flushes the filter and the passages in the motor. Now it's just a fill up with fresh oil and I'm confident I've changed nearly all the oil.
Dave
Up till the 1.5 qt thing it sounded fine. I would think you need to do a new filter every time test side by side to be more convincing it is the oil filter alone getting better. When sae efficiency tests are done, I haven't seen anyone publish data on filters getting more efficient as they load up. Waiting until the filter is bypassing 100% or nearly is also a little iffy. I don't know, it seems your method costs a lot of money.
gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
Some of the posts in this thread make me sad. I feel like the intent of his site has fallen by the way side, with newer, more conservative (read:following archaic outdated methods and recommendations) members posting more and seemingly having more sway here than more experienced members.
The fact that some think that changing an oil filter at 5k that is rated for, and appropriate to run for, double, triple or longer than that OFI is very disheartening.
What has happened here seems akin to going over to the overclockers forum and finding that many of the heavy posters are now warning against the dangers of messing with stock clock speeds, with the logic being that a mild performance boost isn't worth the perceived risk. Sound familiar RE: filter efficiency rise vs retension of "dirty" oil?
The fact that some think that changing an oil filter at 5k that is rated for, and appropriate to run for, double, triple or longer than that OFI is very disheartening.
What has happened here seems akin to going over to the overclockers forum and finding that many of the heavy posters are now warning against the dangers of messing with stock clock speeds, with the logic being that a mild performance boost isn't worth the perceived risk. Sound familiar RE: filter efficiency rise vs retension of "dirty" oil?
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Some of the posts in this thread make me sad. I feel like the intent of his site has fallen by the way side, with newer, more conservative (read:following archaic outdated methods and recommendations) members posting more and seemingly having more sway here than more experienced members.
The fact that some think that changing an oil filter at 5k that is rated for, and appropriate to run for, double, triple or longer than that OFI is very disheartening.
What has happened here seems akin to going over to the overclockers forum and finding that many of the heavy posters are now warning against the dangers of messing with stock clock speeds, with the logic being that a mild performance boost isn't worth the perceived risk. Sound familiar RE: filter efficiency rise vs retension of "dirty" oil?
Not everyone. I change every 5k oil and filter using M1. I don't need to spend money and time on UOAs and there is a lot of uncertainty about that anyway. I figure if the oil filter maker wanted to make the filter highly efficient at lower microns, they can at any time. They don't, they balance flow and filtration. Especially since it is a full flow system talked about. I want a new full flowing filter on there every time, with as much new oil in also. If I want submicron cleaned oil, I will install a bypass filter in addition. Many still do that, I used to back in the day with Frantz, starting in the early 60's with my dad. Nothing in the arguments pro and con has really changed much in the 50 years. The other thing I must say is everyone is entitled to say what they want to say. Even it is disagrees with you, they can say it.
Some of the posts in this thread make me sad. I feel like the intent of his site has fallen by the way side, with newer, more conservative (read:following archaic outdated methods and recommendations) members posting more and seemingly having more sway here than more experienced members.
The fact that some think that changing an oil filter at 5k that is rated for, and appropriate to run for, double, triple or longer than that OFI is very disheartening.
What has happened here seems akin to going over to the overclockers forum and finding that many of the heavy posters are now warning against the dangers of messing with stock clock speeds, with the logic being that a mild performance boost isn't worth the perceived risk. Sound familiar RE: filter efficiency rise vs retension of "dirty" oil?
Not everyone. I change every 5k oil and filter using M1. I don't need to spend money and time on UOAs and there is a lot of uncertainty about that anyway. I figure if the oil filter maker wanted to make the filter highly efficient at lower microns, they can at any time. They don't, they balance flow and filtration. Especially since it is a full flow system talked about. I want a new full flowing filter on there every time, with as much new oil in also. If I want submicron cleaned oil, I will install a bypass filter in addition. Many still do that, I used to back in the day with Frantz, starting in the early 60's with my dad. Nothing in the arguments pro and con has really changed much in the 50 years. The other thing I must say is everyone is entitled to say what they want to say. Even it is disagrees with you, they can say it.
Originally Posted By: Propflux01
How can you say that's "misinformation"? Owners manuals say a lot of things but I'm willing to bet even you don't follow your manuals word for word. I certainly don't. My car does not have an OLM, and states oil changes 7500 miles or 3750 severe. I change oil AND filter at 5K. It's easy to remember and covers the way I drive (alittle of both types). I will not leave an under $10 filter in with new oil. I don't have any way of testing a filter to see if maybe the bypass is distorted and leaking oil or if anything other might be going on because of heat cycles. For me, it's peace of mind and preventive maintenance. I don't see that as misinformation when I recommend this to others.
I'll take Honda's word over yours. Take it up with them if you think you know better.
How can you say that's "misinformation"? Owners manuals say a lot of things but I'm willing to bet even you don't follow your manuals word for word. I certainly don't. My car does not have an OLM, and states oil changes 7500 miles or 3750 severe. I change oil AND filter at 5K. It's easy to remember and covers the way I drive (alittle of both types). I will not leave an under $10 filter in with new oil. I don't have any way of testing a filter to see if maybe the bypass is distorted and leaking oil or if anything other might be going on because of heat cycles. For me, it's peace of mind and preventive maintenance. I don't see that as misinformation when I recommend this to others.
I'll take Honda's word over yours. Take it up with them if you think you know better.
Originally Posted By: CELICA_XX
Originally Posted By: Stewie
Since when oil color is an indicator of ... ANYTHING!
It's an indicator of contaminants.
The old oil was protecting the engine just fine when you changed it? Or it should have been changed sooner. A little old oil that was still doing it's job can't possibly do any harm when mixed with 4+ qts of new oil.
Originally Posted By: Stewie
Since when oil color is an indicator of ... ANYTHING!
It's an indicator of contaminants.
The old oil was protecting the engine just fine when you changed it? Or it should have been changed sooner. A little old oil that was still doing it's job can't possibly do any harm when mixed with 4+ qts of new oil.
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
Originally Posted By: Propflux01
How can you say that's "misinformation"? Owners manuals say a lot of things but I'm willing to bet even you don't follow your manuals word for word. I certainly don't. My car does not have an OLM, and states oil changes 7500 miles or 3750 severe. I change oil AND filter at 5K. It's easy to remember and covers the way I drive (alittle of both types). I will not leave an under $10 filter in with new oil. I don't have any way of testing a filter to see if maybe the bypass is distorted and leaking oil or if anything other might be going on because of heat cycles. For me, it's peace of mind and preventive maintenance. I don't see that as misinformation when I recommend this to others.
I'll take Honda's word over yours. Take it up with them if you think you know better.
you go right ahead and do that. just keep in mind that when you realize that the manufacturer who wrote that manual does that with a specific timeframe of serviceability for that vehicle . After all Hondas not going to make any money if you prolong the life of their vehicle, so go by the manual, go by the oil change, go by the filter every other change. It's your car... I know how long mine is going to last ...
Originally Posted By: Propflux01
How can you say that's "misinformation"? Owners manuals say a lot of things but I'm willing to bet even you don't follow your manuals word for word. I certainly don't. My car does not have an OLM, and states oil changes 7500 miles or 3750 severe. I change oil AND filter at 5K. It's easy to remember and covers the way I drive (alittle of both types). I will not leave an under $10 filter in with new oil. I don't have any way of testing a filter to see if maybe the bypass is distorted and leaking oil or if anything other might be going on because of heat cycles. For me, it's peace of mind and preventive maintenance. I don't see that as misinformation when I recommend this to others.
I'll take Honda's word over yours. Take it up with them if you think you know better.
you go right ahead and do that. just keep in mind that when you realize that the manufacturer who wrote that manual does that with a specific timeframe of serviceability for that vehicle . After all Hondas not going to make any money if you prolong the life of their vehicle, so go by the manual, go by the oil change, go by the filter every other change. It's your car... I know how long mine is going to last ...
Originally Posted By: Propflux01
you go right ahead and do that. just keep in mind that when you realize that the manufacturer who wrote that manual does that with a specific timeframe of serviceability for that vehicle . After all Hondas not going to make any money if you prolong the life of their vehicle, so go by the manual, go by the oil change, go by the filter every other change. It's your car... I know how long mine is going to last ...
You think Honda says that so the longevity of the vehicle is reduced?
Or is it because it really doesn't matter?
you go right ahead and do that. just keep in mind that when you realize that the manufacturer who wrote that manual does that with a specific timeframe of serviceability for that vehicle . After all Hondas not going to make any money if you prolong the life of their vehicle, so go by the manual, go by the oil change, go by the filter every other change. It's your car... I know how long mine is going to last ...
You think Honda says that so the longevity of the vehicle is reduced?
Or is it because it really doesn't matter?
To change, or not to change (the filter), that is the question:
Whether tis better in reality to install a fresh/new filter at 4500 miles along with the fresh/new oil..
Or to re-use the filter (an FU) as also recommended by the Honda MM A/B dash indicator....
Alas such a dilemma.
Either way it is extremely unlikely your engine will know the difference. However seeing as the FU is rated to 15k miles, if ROI (cost/benefit) is a consideration, it doth seem such a waste to remove the FU at less than a third of it's rated interval.
Life or death it's not, but in this case and all things considered, I doth lean to side of leaving it on.
In finality it be your call, consider wisely based on the information posted and so be it. But lose no sleep over it.
Whether tis better in reality to install a fresh/new filter at 4500 miles along with the fresh/new oil..
Or to re-use the filter (an FU) as also recommended by the Honda MM A/B dash indicator....
Alas such a dilemma.
Either way it is extremely unlikely your engine will know the difference. However seeing as the FU is rated to 15k miles, if ROI (cost/benefit) is a consideration, it doth seem such a waste to remove the FU at less than a third of it's rated interval.
Life or death it's not, but in this case and all things considered, I doth lean to side of leaving it on.
In finality it be your call, consider wisely based on the information posted and so be it. But lose no sleep over it.
Originally Posted By: Propflux01
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
Originally Posted By: Propflux01
How can you say that's "misinformation"? Owners manuals say a lot of things but I'm willing to bet even you don't follow your manuals word for word. I certainly don't. My car does not have an OLM, and states oil changes 7500 miles or 3750 severe. I change oil AND filter at 5K. It's easy to remember and covers the way I drive (alittle of both types). I will not leave an under $10 filter in with new oil. I don't have any way of testing a filter to see if maybe the bypass is distorted and leaking oil or if anything other might be going on because of heat cycles. For me, it's peace of mind and preventive maintenance. I don't see that as misinformation when I recommend this to others.
I'll take Honda's word over yours. Take it up with them if you think you know better.
you go right ahead and do that. just keep in mind that when you realize that the manufacturer who wrote that manual does that with a specific timeframe of serviceability for that vehicle . After all Hondas not going to make any money if you prolong the life of their vehicle, so go by the manual, go by the oil change, go by the filter every other change. It's your car... I know how long mine is going to last ...
And you keep on putting your feelings and sleep patterns over engineering and testing. Just don't be surprised when someone isn't impressed with what you pulled out of your backside and put on the internet.
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
Originally Posted By: Propflux01
How can you say that's "misinformation"? Owners manuals say a lot of things but I'm willing to bet even you don't follow your manuals word for word. I certainly don't. My car does not have an OLM, and states oil changes 7500 miles or 3750 severe. I change oil AND filter at 5K. It's easy to remember and covers the way I drive (alittle of both types). I will not leave an under $10 filter in with new oil. I don't have any way of testing a filter to see if maybe the bypass is distorted and leaking oil or if anything other might be going on because of heat cycles. For me, it's peace of mind and preventive maintenance. I don't see that as misinformation when I recommend this to others.
I'll take Honda's word over yours. Take it up with them if you think you know better.
you go right ahead and do that. just keep in mind that when you realize that the manufacturer who wrote that manual does that with a specific timeframe of serviceability for that vehicle . After all Hondas not going to make any money if you prolong the life of their vehicle, so go by the manual, go by the oil change, go by the filter every other change. It's your car... I know how long mine is going to last ...
And you keep on putting your feelings and sleep patterns over engineering and testing. Just don't be surprised when someone isn't impressed with what you pulled out of your backside and put on the internet.
I like to change the filter at every OCI.
That's just me.
Guys running uber expensive synthetic media filters have to run the filter through a second or third oil change to get their money's worth.
Sign me up for a new NAPA Silver with each OCI.
That way, it doesn't bother me when I throw it into the garbage can.
That's just me.
Guys running uber expensive synthetic media filters have to run the filter through a second or third oil change to get their money's worth.
Sign me up for a new NAPA Silver with each OCI.
That way, it doesn't bother me when I throw it into the garbage can.
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
I like to change the filter at every OCI.
That's just me.
Guys running uber expensive synthetic media filters have to run the filter through a second or third oil change to get their money's worth.
Sign me up for a new NAPA Silver with each OCI.
That way, it doesn't bother me when I throw it into the garbage can.
At the end of the day, this is really the way to go (except the oil filter in the garbage can part).
Why do some folks replace a FRAM Ultra after 1/3 of it's useful life? Seems like a waste of money and resources.
I like to change the filter at every OCI.
That's just me.
Guys running uber expensive synthetic media filters have to run the filter through a second or third oil change to get their money's worth.
Sign me up for a new NAPA Silver with each OCI.
That way, it doesn't bother me when I throw it into the garbage can.
At the end of the day, this is really the way to go (except the oil filter in the garbage can part).
Why do some folks replace a FRAM Ultra after 1/3 of it's useful life? Seems like a waste of money and resources.
Originally Posted By: sir1900
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
I like to change the filter at every OCI.
That's just me.
Guys running uber expensive synthetic media filters have to run the filter through a second or third oil change to get their money's worth.
Sign me up for a new NAPA Silver with each OCI.
That way, it doesn't bother me when I throw it into the garbage can.
At the end of the day, this is really the way to go (except the oil filter in the garbage can part).
Why do some folks replace a FRAM Ultra after 1/3 of it's useful life? Seems like a waste of money and resources.
I paid under $5 for my Fram Ultras. Score one more free for saying the name Ultra here. That first car you have is something I couldn't afford. But I can afford $5 more once a year. Even $10 more per year, I could handle it. I mean c'mon you have a 2015 Q50 awd limited and you want to extend the oil filter intervals? That's fine though, joking. If I had a wagon like that I would change the oil and filter twice as often as they say with the best oil and filter money could buy.
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
I like to change the filter at every OCI.
That's just me.
Guys running uber expensive synthetic media filters have to run the filter through a second or third oil change to get their money's worth.
Sign me up for a new NAPA Silver with each OCI.
That way, it doesn't bother me when I throw it into the garbage can.
At the end of the day, this is really the way to go (except the oil filter in the garbage can part).
Why do some folks replace a FRAM Ultra after 1/3 of it's useful life? Seems like a waste of money and resources.
I paid under $5 for my Fram Ultras. Score one more free for saying the name Ultra here. That first car you have is something I couldn't afford. But I can afford $5 more once a year. Even $10 more per year, I could handle it. I mean c'mon you have a 2015 Q50 awd limited and you want to extend the oil filter intervals? That's fine though, joking. If I had a wagon like that I would change the oil and filter twice as often as they say with the best oil and filter money could buy.
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