Can I use European Oils in my Japanese Engines?

[Gebo]

I see certain oils meeting all these BMW, VW, Porsche Standards and I think to myself, wouldn't these be better for my Japanese cars than the oils without these standards? Help me with my attempt at logical thought.

FWIW, my major concern is for long engine life. Increased MPG means virtually nothing.

 

[ExMachina]

Yes. The Euro specs are for tougher, slightly higher HTHS oils. So you'll lose some MPG, like around 2% yes.
Your engine can handle it OK, no real problems, with only a small amount of additional heat joules/second inside from the greater engine friction (viscosity drag friction).
Maybe a better idea is to use the higher spec'ed longer drain oils like M1 Extended Performance, Castrol Edge Extended Performance, or Amsoil SS oils for some extra quality, for Japanese engines which don't necessarily need the high HTHS in the euro oils.

 

[Olas]

The country of origin doesn't really matter, the engine design ie bearing clearance, spring pressure etc determine the best oil for your application.
Honda and Toyota have their own specs IIRC, if you meet those then any other specs could only help..

 

[Gebo]

I was wondering if some of the additives in the European formula had some type of detrimental effect on egr, catalytic converters, and the various pollution stuff we have on our US domiciled cars.

 

[tig1]

No, they won't add one extra mile to you engine, and may actually decrease overall miles. Euros are a little old school when it comes to oil wts. Behind the Asian and US in this regard.

 

[HerrStig]

They come with a Universal Translator.

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: Gebo
I was wondering if some of the additives in the European formula had some type of detrimental effect on egr, catalytic converters, and the various pollution stuff we have on our US domiciled cars.


Good point, IF you have an oil consuming engine, like consumes more oil than about ~1 quart in 3,000 miles or so, THEN the euro-spec oils like M1/Castrol 0w-40 for example, do have higher levels of phosphorous which can foul catalytic convertors. If your car doesn't consume much oil at all, its not a problem. Still, the euro oils don't really have that much more ZDDP phosphorous than the SN limit of 800 ppm in lighter oils, so its probably not a big issue at all.

No other detrimental effects, in fact mostly good effects! Just the mentioned 1 or 2 percent loss in horsepower and fuel economy, both. And the extra small amount of heat generated thru greater viscosity, again not too bad at all.

 

[ExMachina]

Gebo is right to want euro oils which are used in racing (24 Hour endurance at Nurburgring, etc., in Porsche GT3 cars, etc., and also Indy500 10,000 rpm screamers).

 

[Leo99]

It's a qualification process to meet the standards; not necessarily a different formulation.

There are various organizations that issue specifications for motor oil.

The American Petroleum Institute issues the Sx specs. Their current spec is SN. Other organizations are free issue their own specs. One company's oil might meet a bunch of specs or it might be deficient in one or more parameters. The manufacturer of your cars will declare what spec oil is needed for their cars.

Porsche says to use Porsche A40 spec.
Toyota says API SN.

Maybe Porsche found some API SN oils didn't meet their needs. More likely, Porsche didn't like an American organization setting the spec so they created another spec.

A European standard isn't necessarily better for your cars. It might not even be better for the European cars.

I work in pharmaceuticals. We use a lot of salts. There is a European spec and a USP spec for it. The specs are not harmonized. Salt is salt but the specs are different between the two continents and we have to source salt that "meets" both specs so we can use it both continents. One salt isn't better than the other. It's mostly just egos that prevent harmonization on the specs.

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: Leo99
....
Porsche says to use Porsche A40 spec.
Toyota says API SN.

Maybe Porsche found some API SN oils didn't meet their needs. More likely, Porsche didn't like an American organization setting the spec so they created another spec......


"Maybe"? SN oils don't come anywhere near the stringent Porsche A40 euro spec.

 

[lars11]

Instead of making political guessin, check facts. SN is a tiny requirement. Look at these charts to see relative performance for oil specs. Let's just say that Sx are not close to ACEA or brand specs.
http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/lubrizol/EOACEA2009/RPTOOL2010Dep/rp/pc/index.html

Originally Posted By: Leo99
It's a qualification process to meet the standards; not necessarily a different formulation.

There are various organizations that issue specifications for motor oil.

The American Petroleum Institute issues the Sx specs. Their current spec is SN. Other organizations are free issue their own specs. One company's oil might meet a bunch of specs or it might be deficient in one or more parameters. The manufacturer of your cars will declare what spec oil is needed for their cars.

Porsche says to use Porsche A40 spec.
Toyota says API SN.

Maybe Porsche found some API SN oils didn't meet their needs. More likely, Porsche didn't like an American organization setting the spec so they created another spec.

A European standard isn't necessarily better for your cars. It might not even be better for the European cars.

I work in pharmaceuticals. We use a lot of salts. There is a European spec and a USP spec for it. The specs are not harmonized. Salt is salt but the specs are different between the two continents and we have to source salt that "meets" both specs so we can use it both continents. One salt isn't better than the other. It's mostly just egos that prevent harmonization on the specs.

 

[Kamele0N]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina

....
"Maybe"? SN oils don't come anywhere near the stringent Porsche A40 euro spec.


"on the bottle" of my next fill....

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kbouejf6uxqq0wv/AAAwpVehGz1aoq81zEC4ay9Xa?dl=0

 

[Kamele0N]

Originally Posted By: Gebo
I was wondering if some of the additives in the European formula had some type of detrimental effect on egr, catalytic converters, and the various pollution stuff we have on our US domiciled cars.


LoL.....well....NO!

A3/A4/B4 is for EGR equiped vehicles.....

C3/C2/C4.....for EGR and DPF

various pollution stuff....hahah....that was firs domain/agreement of EU cars....in late 70`s and early 80`s

Therfore probably we know what to put in oils for our engines....?

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: Kamele0N


Therfore probably we know what to put in oils for our engines....?


KameleON, were you on the engineering board testing or approving the ACEA or any German-British-French standard? "We?"

 

[camrydriver111]

Quote:
A European standard isn't necessarily better for your cars. It might not even be better for the European cars.


There are real performance differences. In Europe people also change oil every 15k miles with lots of short trips, and not 3k or 5k driving on big American highways with cruise control.

PYB or VWB can't do that. People have killed engines putting conventional oil in their European cars and then using factory specified European OCIs.

That being said, Japanese engines can easily go 300k+ miles on non-Euro conventional oil. Do you have anything to gain from switching? If you want something better use synthetic. Going to Euro oil I doubt you will see real world benefit unless perhaps you track your Lexus LS or want to do an extremely long OCI.

 

[Kamele0N]

No....I just think that he is complicating....or bether.....YOU as "Americans" are complicating too much about some things....in that case this is engine oil.....

Many oil specs are interchangable....like

API SN...BMW LL04.....MB 229.51/229.31....ACEA C3...and some others....

For example....these are ALL LOW SAPS specs....YES it is better to put BMW LL04 in to DPF equiped BMW but nothing will go wrong if you put MB 229,51 instead....or "generic" ACEA C3 oil....or....as long as you are using LOW SAPS oil...

And YES nothing will go wrong if you put "European A3/B4" oil into Japan car....in that case this is Jota (Toyota)...as long as this car has EGR equiped engine ( without DPF system)

That odd way of "american" complicating about not so inportant things in every day life really drives me crazy

 

[Y_K]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina
"We?"


That was a Royal "We".. get used to it

 

[Gebo]

Looks to me that it's a "No Brainer" in that we should all be using European Oils in all our cars?

I guess the only exception would be if our engines are letting oil escape down the exhaust....

 

[Gebo]

Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
Originally Posted By: Gebo
I was wondering if some of the additives in the European formula had some type of detrimental effect on egr, catalytic converters, and the various pollution stuff we have on our US domiciled cars.


LoL.....well....NO!

A3/A4/B4 is for EGR equiped vehicles.....

C3/C2/C4.....for EGR and DPF

various pollution stuff....hahah....that was firs domain/agreement of EU cars....in late 70`s and early 80`s

Therfore probably we know what to put in oils for our engines....?


The point I was trying to make is that we "Americans" have gone nutty over protecting our environment (IMHO) whereas (IMHO) Europe has not. Therefore, I was wondering if many great snd wonderful oil ingredients (or levels) had been ruled "out of bounds" for use in the good ol' USA but were still being used in European oil formulations.

I'm not even gonna go to CAFE.

 

[Quest]

3 points I'd like to make (before I change back to lurking mode):

1: I don't buy european formula shampoo to begin with, so anything from that is indifferent to me.

2: I run ILSAC/API spec'ed oil on NA continental soil, and have achieved very high mileage w/o any form of issues.

3: too many "horseflies" on the board nowadays....


Back to lurking mode.

Quest