Ford 11 speed AT Patent

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frequent upshifting/downshifting equates to more wear (on the friction disks), which equates to shorter trannie service life.

At least that's how I'd translate it.

Methinks 4 or 5spd A/T is ideal.

Q.
 
Originally Posted By: Quest
frequent upshifting/downshifting equates to more wear (on the friction disks), which equates to shorter trannie service life.

At least that's how I'd translate it.

Methinks 4 or 5spd A/T is ideal.

Q.

Doesn't having more gears increase fuel economy? I'd think it would. I've never actually seen a transmission end its service life because of inadequate friction surfaces... at least not a properly working one. I've seen it on Honda minivans, but they had trans issues.
 
If they're going to make more use of small displacement turbo charged buzz bomb engines that lack the torque of a larger lower rpm engine maybe soon even 11 speeds might not be enough.

You could call the process, keeping up with pending new legislation that is taking over the future of transportation. There will always be this struggle if the manufactures keep trying to make vehicles that the public wants and is willing to buy so they can make a profit,stay in business and continue to create jobs, instead of the vehicles the government demands. An 11 speed transmission makes perfect sense in today's market response to government regulations.
 
Isn't it just easier to go with a good CVT? Why do you need explicit gears if the goal is to keep the engine in it's sweet-spot for RMPs
 
I thought the returns started to diminish after 8 or so? I would think a CVT would start making sense at that point.
 
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Originally Posted By: spavel6
Isn't it just easier to go with a good CVT? Why do you need explicit gears if the goal is to keep the engine in it's sweet-spot for RMPs


The operative word here is "good". Most currently available CVTs are not well regarded; we can expect more refinement there but the Jury Is Still Out on current offerings.

Also there has got to be a reason you don't see CVTs paired with high torque motors. Technical limitations might make 10+ speed ATs more attractive from one or more engineering standpoints.

Otherwise we would see CVTs now in Heavy Duty applications replacing the 13 and 15 speed manuals in diesel Semi-trailer Tractor Unifs and Buses. Instead we still see a prevalence of manuals plus some ATs.
 
When the top gear engaged on a flat surface with light to medium throttle, around 70 MPH ? Divide 70 MPH by 11, each gear would be changed at around 6-7 MPH ? And what engine speed would be at 70 MPH, around 1,100-1,200 RPM ?
 
I was once in the 4-5 speeds max camp. Then I drove a Ram with the 8 speed. Didn't matter whether it was V6 or V8 it was flat out amazing.

More shifting does NOT increase wear, it actually reduces it. And you don't yet have a CVT design that can stand up to a high torque application. "Ratio spread" is what the engineers are looking for. Nice super low first gear to make starting off effortless and tall long legged gears for the highway to get fuel economy. My Ram has 3.91 gears yet gets great mileage.

It's a great time to be looking for a truck. I can't wait to see what's next...
 
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Originally Posted By: Eddie
Good for an 18 wheeler but, 5 or 6 seems good for my daily drivers.


+1 With an engine putting out lots of torque I'm sure it will be a great combo. Low torque engines will mean a lot of up and downshifting, even on the slightest of inclines.

I bet it would be great in a diesel PU with a nice flat power curve.
 
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
If they're going to make more use of small displacement turbo charged buzz bomb engines that lack the torque of a larger lower rpm engine maybe soon even 11 speeds might not be enough.

You could call the process, keeping up with pending new legislation that is taking over the future of transportation. There will always be this struggle if the manufactures keep trying to make vehicles that the public wants and is willing to buy so they can make a profit,stay in business and continue to create jobs, instead of the vehicles the government demands. An 11 speed transmission makes perfect sense in today's market response to government regulations.


Have you drove or seen the torque curve on the 4 cylinder ecoboost? The 2.0L puts my old inline 6 to shame. It makes more torque at around ~1700 RPM than my Jeep 4.0 makes ... and the Jeep 4.0 is revered as a low speed, high torque engine.
 
makes perfect sense to me. Its not about how many gears you'd prefer but how efficient you can make a vehicle perform.

An engine highly optimized to run at a very specific RPM. Couple that to an 11 speed automatic gearbox and you get efficiency AND power.

other benefits will be less need for torque multiplication. The torque convertor and the heat generating inefficiencies of fluid coupling can be redesigned or removed completely. ...yes a CVT is a fluid coupled device and makes a lot of heat under heavy load so doesn't scale UP very well from light duty.

I think the shifting of 11 gears will be orchestral genius when it works or heavy metal when it fails. If you look at F1 cars they can actually have 2 gears engaged at the same time so shifts are instantaneous and seamless.
 
I suppose it is OK for around town stuff but on the highway the final drive ratio wont be any different than most vehicle have now.
 
Just because there is 11 gears doesn't mean it will engage all of them when accelerating/deceleration. They skip a lot of gears. Also I thought I read somewhere that autos are fundamentally more efficient than CVTs if you get enough gears in the auto.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'd pass. 5-6 speeds, and/or a ZF 8 speed are enough for me.


Even 8 is too many, at least when not programmed properly. I had a 300 rental for a month a few years ago with the ZF 8 speed. I chose this car over a Hyundai Sonata with great anticipation. I found the transmission pretty frustrating to drive. I can live with 6 speed transmissions when done right. I think a 5 is about perfect.
 
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