Manual Trans are Disappearing !

[mjoekingz28]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
I know each person is different. I have over 5 million miles logged dealing with manual transmissions in semi trucks. I dearly love driving my 2015 Siverado 2500HD with an automatic when I am out of the semi. And I am seriously considering spec'ing a Allison TC-10 automatic when it comes time to buy another semi truck. Dealing with 18 gears every work day during the week, especially in heavy metro traffic, time has come to take advantage of technology and move on. No more clutches, no more playing the shifting game.

Interesting how things play out. In Europe, folks like manuals in their cars and the majority of commercial trucks have automated transmissions. In the U.S., most autos and pickups have automatics and the commercial trucks are primarily manuals. Talk about role reversals!




Thanks for delivering the goods!

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan


Atleast I can still pop in N to get some free mileage down the hills...



Coasting down a hill in neutral uses more fuel than coasting in gear, because coasting in gear completely shuts down the injectors while coasting in neutral they are still injecting fuel while the engine is at idle. I see this on my scanguage in my Honda, because coasting in gear causes the instant MPG to go to the highest value of 9999 MPG.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Here we go-another manual transmission thread where all of the manual transmission chest-thumpers come out in droves, as if driving a manual requires any sort of special skill or advanced knowledge. It really doesn't-even my 60-something wife drove our manual Subaru until we sold it last winter.

Driving a modern, dumbed down manual transmission is no more difficult than driving an automatic-it is just a slightly different skill. Yet I'm willing to bet that the majority of those touting their superior driving skills with a manual wouldn't have the first idea of how to drive a real manual, something not synchronized and with twin sticks perhaps. Or something non-synchronised with 13 or 18 gears, or even a little 5 & 2.


It's not difficult to double declutch or do mental arithmetic until you learn which gear is where and when, you make it sound like driving a manual is difficult.

It's not more difficult than driving automatic, it's easy! I think treason people hate on automatics in these threads is because of how slow they are to react. They don't look half a mile down the road and preempt conditions. They don't let you select the gear before you get to the corner. There's more to go wrong with them. They allow for more driver distraction.
People who learn in automatics have a reduced skill set because they don't know how to rev match and don't understand the relationship between gear ration, road speed and tractability. They probably don't know what synchronisers are or why we have them, and they especially don't know how to double de clutch.

Think microwave dinner vs. 5 star Michelin haute cuisine... They both put food in your belly and they both end up in the sewer, but one is the easy lazy way and one is the forward thinking, rewarding due to skill and foresight way of doing things.




Now if we could just get manual steering with our manual gearboxes!

Wouldn't that be entertaining-using both hand and both feet?




I still havent come to understand some things- such as, why do 2500lb cars have power assisted steering.
So take the belt off and "enjoy". They probably wouldn't need PS but for modern wide and sticky tires and alignment specs. If you like using hands and feet, buy a motorbike.

 

[zzyzzx]

I'm reasonably sure that all the driverless cars have automatic transmissions, so for that reason alone, no manual transmissions after some point in time.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: IndyIan


Atleast I can still pop in N to get some free mileage down the hills...



Coasting down a hill in neutral uses more fuel than coasting in gear, because coasting in gear completely shuts down the injectors while coasting in neutral they are still injecting fuel while the engine is at idle. I see this on my scanguage in my Honda, because coasting in gear causes the instant MPG to go to the highest value of 9999 MPG.

It is surprisingly vehicle dependent, what the ECU decides to do when coasting. The Tracker would always cut down to 1300rpm in any gear any time, my 95 Neon would only cut above 3500rpm so it never cut fuel in my commute, the Focus also has a 3000+ rpm cut and somehow manages to waste/burn nearly twice as much gas as it does when idling!? A 55mph coast in 5th would show as about 120mpg, but in N it goes to 230mpg.
Even with 100% cut in the Tracker, I got my best tanks when coasting in N on most hills, as many of aren't quite steep enough to maintain 55 mph in gear. So I'd be tickling the gas all the way down and then having no extra roll on the flat afterwards.
I drive across a drumlin field so the hills are all about the same size and shape, with maybe 100-150' in elevation change and slopes around 6-8-10% in basically a bell curve so coasting works pretty well.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: quint
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Here we go-another manual transmission thread where all of the manual transmission chest-thumpers come out in droves, as if driving a manual requires any sort of special skill or advanced knowledge. It really doesn't-even my 60-something wife drove our manual Subaru until we sold it last winter.

Driving a modern, dumbed down manual transmission is no more difficult than driving an automatic-it is just a slightly different skill. Yet I'm willing to bet that the majority of those touting their superior driving skills with a manual wouldn't have the first idea of how to drive a real manual, something not synchronized and with twin sticks perhaps. Or something non-synchronised with 13 or 18 gears, or even a little 5 & 2.


My thoughts exactly.

Go land a F-18 on a carrier moving at 20 knots at night in near zero visibility and get back to us on your special talents. Until then, driving a stick puts your 'special talent' on par with my grandmother, literally.

My wife is about as coordinated as a drunk blidfolded giraffe walking a tightrope. She had no concept of how a clutch worked, how to coordinate engine speed to which gear, or anything at all regarding a manual. I took her out in my 5-speed '86 Rx7 one evening years ago in a local mall parking lot and within 10 minutes she could consistently get it rolling without stalling it, within 20 minutes she pretty much was shifting smoothly and at the correct speeds, and in a half hour was driving in traffic. So much for needing any special talent or skill.



Guitars are easy to play, too, but there are very few people who are as skilled at it as Jeff Beck. Has your wife's skill with a manual progressed to the level of Walter Rorhl? I've ridden with people who are totally unskilled in driving a manual. I felt unsafe as a passenger, and figured that their cars were going to have engine, clutch, and driveline problems in a couple of years.

 

[badtlc]

As an interesting note, my Mazda dealer really wants to buy my MTX Mazda3 from me because they can't find enough to satisfy their shoppers right now.

I won't do it just because I have no car payment and really like my car.

 

[Vikas]

Quote:
As an interesting note, my Mazda dealer really wants to buy my MTX Mazda3 from me because they can't find enough to satisfy their shoppers right now.
Hey guys, we found a live one!!!

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Quote:
As an interesting note, my Mazda dealer really wants to buy my MTX Mazda3 from me because they can't find enough to satisfy their shoppers right now.
Hey guys, we found a live one!!!
And car salespersons NEVER lie.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Here we go-another manual transmission thread where all of the manual transmission chest-thumpers come out in droves, as if driving a manual requires any sort of special skill or advanced knowledge. It really doesn't-even my 60-something wife drove our manual Subaru until we sold it last winter.

Driving a modern, dumbed down manual transmission is no more difficult than driving an automatic-it is just a slightly different skill. Yet I'm willing to bet that the majority of those touting their superior driving skills with a manual wouldn't have the first idea of how to drive a real manual, something not synchronized and with twin sticks perhaps. Or something non-synchronised with 13 or 18 gears, or even a little 5 & 2.


Yep.

 

[HerrStig]

I know several people who have put enough miles on Miata manuals to have learned NOT to rev the bleep out of them starting off, or to push the clutch out BEFORE taking their foot off the gas between gears, but alas, they still drive them like oafs. I get a stiff neck riding with them. I'm too tall for a Miata, but I've driven them looking over the top of the windscreen and the clutch and transmission are first rate. I'm at a loss as to why some people can't catch on.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: Olas

A Honda crv and a Jag x type this year, an Audi A6, an X5 and a E39 last year.
In every single one of them, you experience a distinct delay between matting the throttle and accelerating.


The ZF in my wife's Xj8 downshifts so hard and fast it will jerk one's neck. For all practical purposes, it's instantaneous. The Hydramatic 4L80E in my Xj12 is a decade older, and it is somewhat softer.

The Hydramatic 5L40E in my G8 has terrific programming and is perfectly matched to the little six cylinder in that car. The Solstice also has the 5L40E, but it's been years since I've driven it and I don't recall much about it's programing in that chassis.

 

[quint]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: quint
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Here we go-another manual transmission thread where all of the manual transmission chest-thumpers come out in droves, as if driving a manual requires any sort of special skill or advanced knowledge. It really doesn't-even my 60-something wife drove our manual Subaru until we sold it last winter.

Driving a modern, dumbed down manual transmission is no more difficult than driving an automatic-it is just a slightly different skill. Yet I'm willing to bet that the majority of those touting their superior driving skills with a manual wouldn't have the first idea of how to drive a real manual, something not synchronized and with twin sticks perhaps. Or something non-synchronised with 13 or 18 gears, or even a little 5 & 2.


My thoughts exactly.

Go land a F-18 on a carrier moving at 20 knots at night in near zero visibility and get back to us on your special talents. Until then, driving a stick puts your 'special talent' on par with my grandmother, literally.

My wife is about as coordinated as a drunk blidfolded giraffe walking a tightrope. She had no concept of how a clutch worked, how to coordinate engine speed to which gear, or anything at all regarding a manual. I took her out in my 5-speed '86 Rx7 one evening years ago in a local mall parking lot and within 10 minutes she could consistently get it rolling without stalling it, within 20 minutes she pretty much was shifting smoothly and at the correct speeds, and in a half hour was driving in traffic. So much for needing any special talent or skill.


Guitars are easy to play, too, but there are very few people who are as skilled at it as Jeff Beck. Has your wife's skill with a manual progressed to the level of Walter Rorhl?

No, probably not. She doesnt find cooking particularily difficult either, but I dont think that puts her on par with Rachael Ray. Not that being as skilled as a master in a profession is NECESSARY.


Can you beat your chest as well as the gorilla at the zoo?

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: quint
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: quint

My thoughts exactly.

Go land a F-18 on a carrier moving at 20 knots at night in near zero visibility and get back to us on your special talents. Until then, driving a stick puts your 'special talent' on par with my grandmother, literally.

My wife is about as coordinated as a drunk blidfolded giraffe walking a tightrope. She had no concept of how a clutch worked, how to coordinate engine speed to which gear, or anything at all regarding a manual. I took her out in my 5-speed '86 Rx7 one evening years ago in a local mall parking lot and within 10 minutes she could consistently get it rolling without stalling it, within 20 minutes she pretty much was shifting smoothly and at the correct speeds, and in a half hour was driving in traffic. So much for needing any special talent or skill.


Guitars are easy to play, too, but there are very few people who are as skilled at it as Jeff Beck. Has your wife's skill with a manual progressed to the level of Walter Rorhl?

No, probably not. She doesnt find cooking particularily difficult either, but I dont think that puts her on par with Rachael Ray. Not that being as skilled as a master in a profession is NECESSARY.


Can you beat your chest as well as the gorilla at the zoo?


Probably not as well as a guy that lands F-18's on pitching carrier decks in the dark.

 

[Andrew1972]

I stopped in town and looked down into parallel cars and found something interesting as I was walking down street.

In one row, 3 vw's Jetta/Passat tdi, 1 acura tsx, 1 outback, 1 corolla all manual transmission. The balance of vehicle(5) including Civic, SUVs, van automatic.

Not sure they are "dead" yet.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit


Driving a modern, dumbed down manual transmission is no more difficult than driving an automatic-it is just a slightly different skill. Yet I'm willing to bet that the majority of those touting their superior driving skills with a manual wouldn't have the first idea of how to drive a real manual, something not synchronized and with twin sticks perhaps. Or something non-synchronised with 13 or 18 gears, or even a little 5 & 2.


Well, several million miles playing with non synchronized transmissions, including the 18 speed Eaton in my present semi, and I have had enough of this nonsense. Next truck gets an Allison TC-10 full automatic trans. No stupid auto shift junk like some are. Folks who derive some sense of satisfaction from playing with gears can have all the fun they want. When I hop into my 2015 2500HD with an automatic in it, I am a much happier camper. Just getting older, I guess. And want my vehicles to reflect my business.... work smarter, not harder.

 

[CT8]

I have experience in the old days with the Roadranger transmissions in 9 and 10 speed [pretty much the same] and the 13 speed over and under drive [pretty much the same] And so long ago some kind of Spicer that I really don't remember how it was but it was different than the operation of the Roadrangers. How does the 18 speed work?

 

[mjoekingz28]

Originally Posted By: quint
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: quint
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Here we go-another manual transmission thread where all of the manual transmission chest-thumpers come out in droves, as if driving a manual requires any sort of special skill or advanced knowledge. It really doesn't-even my 60-something wife drove our manual Subaru until we sold it last winter.

Driving a modern, dumbed down manual transmission is no more difficult than driving an automatic-it is just a slightly different skill. Yet I'm willing to bet that the majority of those touting their superior driving skills with a manual wouldn't have the first idea of how to drive a real manual, something not synchronized and with twin sticks perhaps. Or something non-synchronised with 13 or 18 gears, or even a little 5 & 2.


My thoughts exactly.

Go land a F-18 on a carrier moving at 20 knots at night in near zero visibility and get back to us on your special talents. Until then, driving a stick puts your 'special talent' on par with my grandmother, literally.

My wife is about as coordinated as a drunk blidfolded giraffe walking a tightrope. She had no concept of how a clutch worked, how to coordinate engine speed to which gear, or anything at all regarding a manual. I took her out in my 5-speed '86 Rx7 one evening years ago in a local mall parking lot and within 10 minutes she could consistently get it rolling without stalling it, within 20 minutes she pretty much was shifting smoothly and at the correct speeds, and in a half hour was driving in traffic. So much for needing any special talent or skill.


Guitars are easy to play, too, but there are very few people who are as skilled at it as Jeff Beck. Has your wife's skill with a manual progressed to the level of Walter Rorhl?

No, probably not. She doesnt find cooking particularily difficult either, but I dont think that puts her on par with Rachael Ray. Not that being as skilled as a master in a profession is NECESSARY.


Can you beat your chest as well as the gorilla at the zoo?





How about that one? Finally someone gives Pop_Rivet a taste of his own medicine. It seems he has been bullying everyone on here.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Originally Posted By: CT8
I have experience in the old days with the Roadranger transmissions in 9 and 10 speed [pretty much the same] and the 13 speed over and under drive [pretty much the same] And so long ago some kind of Spicer that I really don't remember how it was but it was different than the operation of the Roadrangers. How does the 18 speed work?


The 13 is a 9 that one can split the gears in the top range. The 18 is a 9 that one can split the gears in both high and low ranges.

 

[Ausfahrt]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker


The 13 is a 9 that one can split the gears in the top range. The 18 is a 9 that one can split the gears in both high and low ranges.



Well that pretty much nails it. I think that we can close the thread now.