smaller oil fitler = Faster Oil Pressure?

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David1

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I had a guy come in at work and asked for a FRAM Ultra oil filter for his car, it was a late 90s Honda V6

I knew right away XG7317 or XG3593A
Filter Thread Size: 20mmx1.5mm

and he said no he wanted XG6607
Filter Thread Size: 20mmx1.5mm

As I said at first I thought he meant XG3593A
Filter Thread Size: 20mmx1.5mm

As you see they are all 20mmx1.5mm and look alike in gasket size
and have bypass valve just the size is diff.. Actually it looks like a 7317
that is cut down in half.


I said sure Ill get you the XG6607 and I asked him why b/c its such a small oil filter
and he said with Vtec engines a smaller oil filter is better b/c you get get faster oil pressure at start up and something about faster oil pressure when you engine goes into VTEC mode

I never want to argue with anyone but I know most people rather have a larger oil filter and just add extra oil.

However what do you all think what i was told about small oil filter with a vtec engine??
And is that true about getting faster oil pressure at start up and getting
faster oil pressure when you go into vtech mode.

I mean he went on and on saying its only needed with cars that had any type of vtec

also he went on to say when he raced cars he would use some sorta device that would have no oil filter at all and how he got 10 - 12 Horse power more.

Have any of you heard this in your life?


Thanks for any response?
 
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No matter what the manufacturer recommends, there are always folks that think they know better.
 
Originally Posted By: Leo99
No matter what the manufacturer recommends, there are always folks that think they know better.


So any truth or fact or fiction to what he says???

b/c the 3593A that the book calls for is very wide, but you go to the dealer and get
the A01 or A02 and its similar to the 7317??

Also the HEMP green oil filters that are similar to Filtech A01s are a smaller then the
A01 Fitech and smaller then the A02 and smaller then the 7317.. the 7317 is the same size as the A02 / A01

so fact / false / fiction??

Could it hurt to put the small one on???

He said he has been using the smaller version for years.

Im sure someone has to know about this
 
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Just give him the filter and say, thank you.


I did .....

I just never head of that....

I dont think i ever seen this talked about here.

so far no one seems to have a theory if its correct or wrong
 
Originally Posted By: David1

I said sure Ill get you the XG6607 and I asked him why b/c its such a small oil filter
and he said with Vtec engines a smaller oil filter is better b/c you get get faster oil pressure at start up and something about faster oil pressure when you engine goes into VTEC mode

I never want to argue with anyone but I know most people rather have a larger oil filter and just add extra oil.

However what do you all think what i was told about small oil filter with a vtec engine??
And is that true about getting faster oil pressure at start up and getting
faster oil pressure when you go into vtech mode.

I mean he went on and on saying its only needed with cars that had any type of vtec

also he went on to say when he raced cars he would use some sorta device that would have no oil filter at all and how he got 10 - 12 Horse power more.

Have any of you heard this in your life?

Thanks for any response?


Once oil has filled the entire oiling system, if the ADBV on the filter works then the oil pressure will build up just as quick with a huge filter as it would with a small filter.

IF the ADBV leaks and causes the oiling system to drain back to the sump, THEN a smaller oil filter would give quicker oil pressure ... but maybe by only a second or two.

I highly doubt there is 10~12 HP gain by not using an oil filter because the delta-p across the filter would equate to about 1/100th of a HP or less to overcome.

Sounds like this guy was a "Ricky Racer" who spews all kinds of nonsensical drama to make everything sound exaggerated to me.
 
Originally Posted By: David1

Could it hurt to put the small one on???


Maybe depending on the use of the filter. If he's running it for a long OCI it's more risky than a larger filter. The smaller filter probably has higher delta-p also under the same conditions as the larger filter.

So let me get this straight ... he's purposely using a smaller filter than what the OEM calls for because the thinks it gives him faster oil pressure for VTEC operation ... LoL, yeah - OK.
grin.gif
 
Of all Honda 4-cyl engines S2000 has the most power per liter at 120 HP/L for AP1 and slightly less for AP2. Honda has special oil filter PCX-004 for it, it is almost exact size as Fram 3593A and it is what I use in my 2004 S2000.

Honda engineers who designed an engine that has 9,000 RPM redline 15 years ago, higher than any mass production engine in the world at that time, they sure know what the heck the type of oil filter it needs better than anybody.

I used mostly PCX-004 in my S2000, currently I have Wix 51344 with diameter similar to PCX-004 and 3593A but 1" longer. I have no problem accelerate to 8,000-8,200 RPM regularly(after engine fully warmed up).
 
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More often than not, once the claim that someone races Hondas comes out, my ears go on vacation. Especially if they're getting into all of the space shuttle technology needed to support a VTEC engine.

People too dumb to get oil coolers, and those who race in classes that don't allow them to be added run smaller oil filters, because allegedly the overheated filter cans start to warp from the heat.
 
David1, great customer service and you gave him what he wanted, not what he needed, but you tried.

Larger oil filter - more surface area for better filtration.

Oil pump pressure is what circulates the oil.

I believe the customer's information is bogus, and he is hallucinating.
grin2.gif
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
David1, great customer service and you gave him what he wanted, not what he needed, but you tried.

Larger oil filter - more surface area for better filtration.

Oil pump pressure is what circulates the oil.

I believe the customer's information is bogus, and he is hallucinating.
grin2.gif



yes I came out with the 7317 and 3593A and he went and got the smaller one and I compared the gasket size and the thread type and widith and told him I have heard of people use the 7317 and the book says 3593A but he wanted the smaller one and I was told to never argue with a customer...

and as i told you he went on to back up his claim....

So I just sold him what he asked for and made sure he saw on the computer he was suppose to get the 3593a

So whatever.... it was part of a sale our store was having.

5QT of VAL FULL syn oil and FRAM ULTRA for 29$

and he was upset that he had to buy 5QT of the oil... he only wanted 4QTs

However the computer would not ring up the deal unless he got 5QTs of oil and the FRAM Ultra oil filter...

he could of gotten a MOBIL 1 or a K&N but he insisted on the mini tiny FRAM oil filter..


It sorta looked like 1 of them Ecore FRAMs but in a Fram Ultra can.

I had never seen one that small before..

Whatever....

I agree with what you guys say.. Just wanted to make sure.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule

Oil pump pressure is what circulates the oil.


Not to split hairs, but with a positive displacement oil pump it's the volumetric output of the pump that circulated the oil. The oil pressure is the result of the pump mechanically forcing the that oil volume through a resistive path.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: MolaKule

Oil pump pressure is what circulates the oil.


Not to split hairs, but with a positive displacement oil pump it's the volumetric output of the pump that circulated the oil. The oil pressure is the result of the pump mechanically forcing the that oil volume through a resistive path.


So what does that mean?

he had a point to use the tiny fram ultra oil filter and not the 3593a or the 7317 ??
 
Originally Posted By: David1
So what does that mean?

he had a point to use the tiny fram ultra oil filter and not the 3593a or the 7317 ??


It means he heard and believed something he really doesn't understand - ie, that smaller oil filters are somehow giving him something larger oil filers can't.
 
Providing the oil is not draining out of the filter, size shouldn't make any difference.
 
Originally Posted By: David1
Originally Posted By: Leo99
No matter what the manufacturer recommends, there are always folks that think they know better.


So any truth or fact or fiction to what he says???

b/c the 3593A that the book calls for is very wide, but you go to the dealer and get
the A01 or A02 and its similar to the 7317??

Also the HEMP green oil filters that are similar to Filtech A01s are a smaller then the
A01 Fitech and smaller then the A02 and smaller then the 7317.. the 7317 is the same size as the A02 / A01

so fact / false / fiction??

Could it hurt to put the small one on???

He said he has been using the smaller version for years.

Im sure someone has to know about this





I'm a huge believer in empirical scientific methods. For example, get 100 identical Hondas and run 10 of them with each of the oil filters you mentioned for 250k miles with the same OCI and see if any trends emerge. After all that testing, I'd guess that there are very small to no statistically meaningful differences between any of the filters.
 
He lost any credibility when he said in his racing days his car would gain 10-12 HP by eliminating the filter. It makes no sense, but give him what he wants. I'm surprised that a guy with that much 'racing' experience and know how would bring his car in for an oil change versus doing it himself. He probably reads a lot of Honda forums
smile.gif
 
Holden (GM Auzstralia) brought out their "red" six cylinder in the 60s, and ran it all the way up to 1987, at the end, with port fuel injection.

The filter was a Ryco Z30, massive thing, about the same as a typical Ford small block, and they all rattled while the lifters filled every morning.

In the '80s, Holden's customers were complaining about the start up noise, compared to the other luxury rivals, so Holden put on a very small comparatively filter (about the same size as goes on the GM 3.8 (note, I'm not cross referencing base gaskets and threads, just volumes).

I tried one a couple of times, and it really DID speed up the time for no lifter clatter.

Engine cutaway pic here
https://www.flickr.com/photos/glenhsparky/4296492051/

As can be seen, the oil pump is driven off the cam, which is obviously well above the crank.

ADB valve or not, the galleries drain to the lowest point overnight.
 
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