Anybody know if a lucas tech or employee...

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Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
What doesn't make sense and is silly is to pronounce an additive useless based on a simple uoa. There are many substances that it won't pick up.


From the other thread where you brought this up, and forught so vigorously for it, I honestly believe that Lucas has the highest levels of elemental Undetectium of any OTC product.

Allowing it to have an undetectable improvement in performance on the timken tester (I chose timken, as you've espoused the similarity of the test to what really goes on in "the sliding part" of real engines when it's validity has been brought into question).



Lucas...it's what's not in it that makes it so special.


I get a bad rap for disrespecting the gods here. Take a hard look at your tone. This is how it starts. This is not a debate where were trying to look smart for an audience. But thats what it always turns into. A couple of huge egos butting heads. And face it, you and i are 2 ofthe biggest on here.

It should be about getting at the scientific truth. You're going to bring up a test you don't believe in because winning the argument is the most important thing?
 
OK...simple truth...Lucas does nothing but thicken your oil, reduce the concentration of your additives, and lighten your wallet substantially over buying a correctly formulated oil of the necessary grade.

You are the one who brought the undetectable additive into discussion in the other thread. You could list all the things that it "might be" if you are so adamant that it's there.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
OK...simple truth...Lucas does nothing but thicken your oil, reduce the concentration of your additives, and lighten your wallet substantially over buying a correctly formulated oil of the necessary grade.



This is pretty much what all oil additives do. Some thicken some thin, all reduce the concentration of your additives and lighten your wallet.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
You know what the real deal is? And I know you do.

I don't believe much in the way of any additive. I am very skeptical about fuel economy additives. I even mentioned it in the other thread, so I don't have to repeat it here. As for ATP and the red, I don't have any experience with those products. At least with the ATP, if it's a seal sweller, it might work as advertised, but for engine uses, so will a fully formulated HM oil. M1 0w-40 is a fully formulated motor oil, so I'm not sure why it's on your list. As for MMO, I've stated many times I see little use in it. This isn't 1950 and I'm not running non-detergent monogrades and trying to keep an engine clean or start it in a Saskatchewan winter.

As for what isn't picked up in a VOA with respect to Lucas Oil Stabilizer, forget it. That's a red herring. Lucas's own site states that it's 100% petroleum. There are no additives. Now, if Lucas "stabilizes" an oil by diluting its additives and thickening it up, wouldn't one simply be better off buying a thicker, non-detergent monograde?
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I get a bad rap for disrespecting the gods here. Take a hard look at your tone. This is how it starts. This is not a debate where were trying to look smart for an audience. But thats what it always turns into. A couple of huge egos butting heads. And face it, you and i are 2 ofthe biggest on here.

It should be about getting at the scientific truth. You're going to bring up a test you don't believe in because winning the argument is the most important thing?


Maybe, but there is a huge difference between you and Shannow. Shannow backs up his argument with facts and figures, you just spout off nonsense - and when confronted with it you either change the subject or just ignore and don't respond.

Two huge egos yes. But nowhere near the same.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
[ you just spout off nonsense - and when confronted with it you either change the subject or just ignore and don't respond.


You can link to just about anything these days. A link is not proof or "back up" of anything. A good discussion builds on sound engineering, mathematical and scientific principles. If that sounds like nonsense to you, I suggest you enroll in night classes to gain a foundation for higher level discussion.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: kschachn
[ you just spout off nonsense - and when confronted with it you either change the subject or just ignore and don't respond.


You can link to just about anything these days. A link is not proof or "back up" of anything. A good discussion builds on sound engineering, mathematical and scientific principles. If that sounds like nonsense to you, I suggest you enroll in night classes to gain a foundation for higher level discussion.


turtlevette, time and time again, I use theory and math (e.g. the power consumption of an oil pump is simple), the bearing design principal charts and you respond with it doesn't "feel" right, I'm wrong, I've missed something... NEVER have you responded with anything factual, scientific or concrete (*)

I provide links to papers which back my numbers, and you accuse me of being great at posting other's work, and not capable of the engineering.

(*) then you make up imaginary things like the low viscosity oil that has a higher MOFT than a higher viscosity oil, the Undetectium in Lucas ... then challenge people to prove you wrong on your strawman, when you don't have an ounce of evidence to your position.

If you can't work out how much power an oil pump consumes, about the most basic engineering principals there are (but feel justified in saying my numbers are wrong), maybe you need the night refresher classes yourself.
 
You mad bro?

The formula for pump HP you got off engineering toolbox or wherever, doesn't account that the pump is working against back pressure. If the HP was as low as you calculated with someone's generic fkrmula, there wouldn't be so much r&d going on to develop variable displacement pumps.

If you go to the redline site they talk about ester oils that have the same film strength as the next higher grade conventional.

If there is a secret ingredient in Lucas, do you really think they are going to reveal it. Have you heard of trade secret trademarks?

Most of the stuff you post on bearings applies to turbines.

There has to be a bit more to Lucas than a simple thickener. Auto transmissions don't magically start shifting again with just that. There is something that frees sticking valves and plungers.

You are a bright individual. I just wish you had a more open mind. Too many discussions get shut down with a refusal to look at new ideas and resulting ridicule.

Undetectium?
 
Originally Posted By: Turtlevettte
There has to be a bit more to Lucas [assuming LUCAS ATF stuff here] than a simple thickener.Auto transmissions don't magically start shifting again with just that. There is something that frees sticking valves and plungers.


Then please tell us what it is, and tell us how you know for sure it frees sticking servo valves and actuators (engineering terms, btw).
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette

The formula for pump HP you got off engineering toolbox or wherever, doesn't account that the pump is working against back pressure.


It did actually...if you understood the math, you could do it yourself.
 
I used the stop slip on the old brown van and the tranny stopped slipping. Based on this extensive study, I will suggest Lucas stop slip to people who can't afford (or have a clunker that's not worth it) to get their trans properly fixed properly.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: turtlevette

The formula for pump HP you got off engineering toolbox or wherever, doesn't account that the pump is working against back pressure.


It did actually...if you understood the math, you could do it yourself.


When you have experience you have a feel for when a formula or computer program is giving the wrong result. 0.3 HP just ain't right. There's something missing.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette


If you go to the redline site they talk about ester oils that have the same film strength as the next higher grade conventional.

There has to be a bit more to Lucas than a simple thickener. Auto transmissions don't magically start shifting again with just that. There is something that frees sticking valves and plungers.


They have an operational viscosity (HTHS) that is thicker than the next higher grade conventional. Nothing revolutionary, just thicker oil providing greater separation of the parts.

The subject of this discussion was their oil stabilizer, not their transmission additive. Stay on subject. Quit throwing out straw men.

Ec
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: Turtlevettte
There has to be a bit more to Lucas [assuming LUCAS ATF stuff here] than a simple thickener.Auto transmissions don't magically start shifting again with just that. There is something that frees sticking valves and plungers.


Then please tell us what it is, and tell us how you know for sure it frees sticking servo valves and actuators (engineering terms, btw).


A trans shifts based on accumulators, pistons connected to springs being filled with hydraulic oil at a rate determined by line pressures controlled by throttle position. You should know that.

You're just so hard to talk to when mad and hurt. Like a wife.
 
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Originally Posted By: turtlevette
If there is a secret ingredient in Lucas, do you really think they are going to reveal it. Have you heard of trade secret trademarks?

They say it has nothing (aside from 100% petroleum) on the site, on the PDS, and on the MSDS. I'm not sure what other evidence we need. There is no secret ingredient.
 
I said a few times here. It got my used car sales manager out of pinch a few times. He took a few trades that had knocking engines, when they went to the shop to be prepped for the line and he was informed the car needed engine work, he'd tell them do dump in some Lucas and he'd wholesale the car. It worked for that.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: Turtlevettte
There has to be a bit more to Lucas [assuming LUCAS ATF stuff here] than a simple thickener.Auto transmissions don't magically start shifting again with just that. There is something that frees sticking valves and plungers.


Then please tell us what it is, and tell us how you know for sure it frees sticking servo valves and actuators (engineering terms, btw).


A trans shifts based on accumulators, pistons connected to springs being filled with hydraulic oil at a rate determined by line pressures controlled by throttle position. You should know that...



smile.gif


You could have simply said that in your post before you had to go to the Internet to search for the correct engineering terms.

As to the original question posited by the OP, and before Turtlevette started throwing around unsupported strawmen and off-topic obfuscating clutter, I do not know of any reason preventing a Lucas qualified technical person (preferably a lubrication engineer) from coming on here and filling in the blanks.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: turtlevette

The formula for pump HP you got off engineering toolbox or wherever, doesn't account that the pump is working against back pressure.


It did actually...if you understood the math, you could do it yourself.


When you have experience you have a feel for when a formula or computer program is giving the wrong result. 0.3 HP just ain't right. There's something missing.


This post is missing from where it belongs. Typical.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
...I do not know of any reason preventing a Lucas qualified technical person (preferably a lubrication engineer) from coming on here and filling in the blanks.

I have a reason. Lucas Oil Stabilizer really doesn't need a lubrication engineer to formulate it. All it needs is someone to call Shell, XOM, or someone else, purchase a whack of base stocks, rebottle them as LOS, and charge a very significant markup. That can be accomplished by minimum wage employees.
 
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