Lighter oils, lower zinc, et al

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One of the other threads has been covering viscosity improvers and use of lighter formulations. I went back and dug up an interesting 2014 article from MotoIQ, a site run by Mike Kojima who is one of the premiere import engine builders and has been for 25 years or more. I mentioned him in an earlier post. Mike had usually been an oil agnostic. As oils had "improved" over time he was less of the "only use Motul or Redline" kind of guy than most racers. The article and many of the comments in the comments section from other racer/builders were interesting with regard to additives and what is happening to oils as we go tighter and tighter on the emissions regs.

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/I...enrite-Oil.aspx
 
Who would be ignorant enough to run OTC street oils in highly modified or racing engines?

This guy is not enough of a chemist to know there are other unseen AW additives besides ZDDP.

Sounds like an endorsement for Pennrite to me.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Who would be ignorant enough to run OTC street oils in highly modified or racing engines?

This guy is not enough of a chemist to know there are other unseen AW additives besides ZDDP.

Sounds like an endorsement for Pennrite to me.



The new V6 IndyCars run Pennzoil Platnium 5W40 per all the empty bottles at Fontana.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Who would be ignorant enough to run OTC street oils in highly modified or racing engines?

This guy is not enough of a chemist to know there are other unseen AW additives besides ZDDP.

Sounds like an endorsement for Pennrite to me.



Be thou careful or the M1 community will surely smite thee. I agree about the endorsement part but felt that it illuminated the situation, and consequences, as we transition to this new era of emission addpacks. Kojima is nobodys dummy. Came from Nissan Racing at one point.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule


This guy is not enough of a chemist to know there are other unseen AW additives besides ZDDP.

Note also that the article references ZDTP thereby bringin the phosphates so it's not all about zinc only.
 
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Spot on MolaKule, definitely an ad for Penrite products (one of their sponsors no doubt) thinly disguised as a "technical article". Unfortunately this happens way to often in all forms of media these days, occasionally there's good info but you have to go through a lot of garbage to get it.

Best wishes,

Jason


Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Who would be ignorant enough to run OTC street oils in highly modified or racing engines?

This guy is not enough of a chemist to know there are other unseen AW additives besides ZDDP.

Sounds like an endorsement for Pennrite to me.
 
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal

The new V6 IndyCars run Pennzoil Platnium 5W40 per all the empty bottles at Fontana.


I can't speak specifically to Indycar, so I can't for sure that this is the case. But similar tactics have been used in other racing series to give the public the impression that racing machines are using the same oil they can buy at Walmart.

Meanwhile, it's just the bottle that's the same. The oil inside is a special blend specifically made for the racing machines.

A little Marketing 101.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal

The new V6 IndyCars run Pennzoil Platnium 5W40 per all the empty bottles at Fontana.


I can't speak specifically to Indycar, so I can't for sure that this is the case. But similar tactics have been used in other racing series to give the public the impression that racing machines are using the same oil they can buy at Walmart.

Meanwhile, it's just the bottle that's the same. The oil inside is a special blend specifically made for the racing machines.

A little Marketing 101.
wink.gif



That very well could be. I just noticed a lot of empty bottles and cases in the trash cans pre-race.
 
I'm pretty sure at least one of the V8 supercar teams (I won't mention which one but it's fair to say they do ok) here in Aus uses the same Torco SR-5r that anyone can buy as I know a couple of guys that work for the local distributor that supplies it to them.

Having said that it retails for about twenty eight bucks a litre over here, probably more now that the dollar is down and it isn't on the shelf at the local Autobarn or Supercheap either. No surprises but FPR don't use the same Castrol Edge that the public can buy, one of the Castrol techs confirmed that for me when I was talking to him about some other info.

Best wishes,
Jason.
 
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I used Mobil 1 in a race engine. It was the longest lasting race engine I ever had. I also used non OTC race oils is other engines. I never ever had an oil related failure. Mainly parts breaking. Rods, cranks, valves.

These were oval track race engines.
And I'm not a Mobil 1 groupie, in fact I no longer use it in anything. Just stating my opinion that high dollar special racing oils aren't all that special.
 
Originally Posted By: JaseD
I'm pretty sure at least one of the V8 supercar teams (I won't mention which one but it's fair to say they do ok) here in Aus uses the same Torco SR-5r that anyone can buy as I know a couple of guys that work for the local distributor that supplies it to them.

Having said that it retails for about twenty eight bucks a litre over here, probably more now that the dollar is down and it isn't on the shelf at the local Autobarn or Supercheap either. No surprises but FPR don't use the same Castrol Edge that the public can buy, one of the Castrol techs confirmed that for me when I was talking to him about some other info.

Best wishes,
Jason.


Jason,
back before COTF, the havoline team would ask journalists to buy a couple of jugs of 20W50 havoline on the way to the track, and make a show of tipping OTC 20W50 into the dry sump before a display day.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: JaseD
I'm pretty sure at least one of the V8 supercar teams (I won't mention which one but it's fair to say they do ok) here in Aus uses the same Torco SR-5r that anyone can buy as I know a couple of guys that work for the local distributor that supplies it to them.

Having said that it retails for about twenty eight bucks a litre over here, probably more now that the dollar is down and it isn't on the shelf at the local Autobarn or Supercheap either. No surprises but FPR don't use the same Castrol Edge that the public can buy, one of the Castrol techs confirmed that for me when I was talking to him about some other info.

Best wishes,
Jason.


Jason,
back before COTF, the havoline team would ask journalists to buy a couple of jugs of 20W50 havoline on the way to the track, and make a show of tipping OTC 20W50 into the dry sump before a display day.



That's interesting Shannow but I'd be fairly confident that they wouldn't have their "good" race engines in the cars for ride days, maybe a bit of a gimmick or do you think they genuinely used the oil all the time? I'm pretty sure the ones I know of use 5W30 Torco SR-5r, I wonder what the Lucas sponsored teams use.

P.S. Did you grab some containers of Edge 5W30 A3/B4 on special at Repco last weekend for $39.95, pretty good value at that price. I've got about four or five 5l containers under the bench at the moment, I already had a few from the previous time it was on the same special.

Best wishes,
Jason.
 
Jason,
I'm absolutely positive that the Havoline 20W50 on the drive days was a gimmick...had the journos talking about it.

Nah, I missed the edge 5W30, but got this weekend the startup 10W30 and filter for $29.95 for the Statesman (actually, got the deal matched at Supercheap, because I like their SCA oil filters)..
 
Originally Posted By: JaseD
I'm pretty sure at least one of the V8 supercar teams (I won't mention which one but it's fair to say they do ok) here in Aus uses the same Torco SR-5r that anyone can buy as I know a couple of guys that work for the local distributor that supplies it to them.

Having said that it retails for about twenty eight bucks a litre over here, probably more now that the dollar is down and it isn't on the shelf at the local Autobarn or Supercheap either.


Yes, and although it is a little less costly over here in the States (I've seen it online for ~22.00 USD/quart), it is also NEVER 'on the shelf' anywhere here either, not even at very specialized 'speed shops', or at least none that I have visited.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule

This guy is not enough of a chemist to know there are other unseen AW additives besides ZDDP.





Unseen by a VOA and UOA? The undetectium I've been looking for?
 
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Who would be ignorant enough to run OTC street oils in highly modified or racing engines?.....


"It’s a little-known fact: the motor oil used in IndyCar and the motor oil consumers can buy right off-the-shelf is one and the same.
”Use of commercial motor oil is an IndyCar rule and they verify availability before allowing its use,” said Shell research engineer Paul Bastien."


http://www.godrivemag.com/pureplus-off-the-shelf-into-indycar/

...where Pennzoil says Penske Indycar runs their 0w-40 straight.
And of course the M1 0w-40 crowd knows its an endurance racing oil too in Indy500 action and 24 Hour GT.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Who would be ignorant enough to run OTC street oils in highly modified or racing engines?

This guy is not enough of a chemist to know there are other unseen AW additives besides ZDDP.

Sounds like an endorsement for Pennrite to me.


Line at the bottom of P2 says that the information was provided by Penrite...so a sort of advertorial of sorts.

Which is weird that they only focused on the zinc, as the Penrite signature ad pack for the racing oils is

2960 ppm Ca
630 ppm B
100ppm Mo
1760ppm Zn
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: JaseD
I'm pretty sure at least one of the V8 supercar teams (I won't mention which one but it's fair to say they do ok) here in Aus uses the same Torco SR-5r that anyone can buy as I know a couple of guys that work for the local distributor that supplies it to them.

Having said that it retails for about twenty eight bucks a litre over here, probably more now that the dollar is down and it isn't on the shelf at the local Autobarn or Supercheap either.


Yes, and although it is a little less costly over here in the States (I've seen it online for ~22.00 USD/quart), it is also NEVER 'on the shelf' anywhere here either, not even at very specialized 'speed shops', or at least none that I have visited.



You can get it at some specialist speed shops over here but it's not on the shelves in the regular auto shops like the ones I mentioned. They could probably special order it in but then you'd probably pay even more for it.

As far as I know Torco is really good stuff though, they make some lower priced oils as well but even they're not cheap for a daily driver. They are comparable to M1, Edge and other quality synthetics if you can get them for wholesale/trade price though.

It sure sucks if you want to buy some higher end oils in Australia, that's for sure.

Best wishes,
Jason.
 
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