Any issues grooving tread blocks?

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Siping should only be done on newer tires, from what I was told. I used to have this done at Discount Tire (good tire chain), and they mentioned this, maybe because they weren't controlling the depth of cut, don't know.

Siping won't help noise much, but it helps break up wet films on top of ice and water on the road. Thats why you see winter tires with so many tiny sipes built in.

These days I just run the 40,000 mile high speed rated Michelin Xice3 tires already heavily siped, and that tire acts like an all-season tire too, remarkable really, long wearing.

I just ran a set of new old stock Xice's on the Tracker for the last 2 years as well. They worked pretty good, better wet traction than cheap 3 season tires, and are down to about 1/2 depth.
The CRV has a set of 9 year old Xice's down into the all season compound, so we should get a new winter set this fall too. It's tempting to just get a set of Xice3 and run them for the couple years we plan to have the CRV... They are an $800 set of tires up here though!

 

[CapriRacer]

More thoughts:

First, the issue of smaller tread elements causing higher pitched noise: There are 2 mechanisms generating noise in tires: a) air flowing in and out of the tread as the tire rolls, and b) The tread elements themselves vibrating.

Cutting bits of rubber off the tread may open up the tread and make for less noise - or even lower pitched noise - but at the same time, if smaller tread elements are created, then the noise might increase, particularly in the higher frequencies.

And at this point I should point out that I am NOT an expert in tire noise. I know a bit about it, but not enough be definitive. I probably know enough to be dangerous.

Second, one of the issues in tire noise is the number of tread elements creating the same frequency. The best way to reduce the overall noise of a tire is to have elements of different size so the noise isn't confined to one frequency.

Third, I spent some time looking at the Hydroedge's tread pattern, and I think I see the problem. It's the short sipes. I suspect they are generating a lot noise in the same frequency.

The fix for that would be to open up each sipe - make them wider.

And lastly, tread elements interact with the pavement. That creates situations where normally quiet tires become noisy.

So I have to ask:

1) Can you describe the noise in words? Is it a sizzle? A hum? A drone?

2) Does it make a difference what road you are traveling on? It should. If it doesn't, then the problem might not be the tires - it might be in the drivetrain.

PS. I don't think cutting circumferential grooves is going to help here. First, the reason most tires are 5 ribs is for convenience. Circumferential grooves (and ribs) make easy to design. The tread elements are simply shaped and easy to avoid problem issues.

The fact that we are starting out with a V shaped pattern just complicates matters - and cutting circumferential grooves isn't going to solve that.

 

[IndyIan]

The RR sounds like its an off truck road tire, and the rest have a bit of the off road tire rumble, but mostly just normal tire noise but louder, and very loud on older pavement where the aggregate protrudes.
They also slap into cracks or expansion joints quite loudly too. I think a lot of it, is the rubber is harder and there is so much of it on the road.
It is bad enough that I could just hear a bad front bearing, which has been replaced during the mechanical inspection to transfer ownership, so everything else under there is in decent shape.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
The RR sounds like its an off truck road tire, and the rest have a bit of the off road tire rumble, but mostly just normal tire noise but louder, and very loud on older pavement where the aggregate protrudes.
They also slap into cracks or expansion joints quite loudly too. I think a lot of it, is the rubber is harder and there is so much of it on the road.
It is bad enough that I could just hear a bad front bearing, which has been replaced during the mechanical inspection to transfer ownership, so everything else under there is in decent shape.


This sounds like irregular wear - and cutting the tire up is only going to make it worse.

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
The RR sounds like its an off truck road tire, and the rest have a bit of the off road tire rumble, but mostly just normal tire noise but louder, and very loud on older pavement where the aggregate protrudes.
They also slap into cracks or expansion joints quite loudly too. I think a lot of it, is the rubber is harder and there is so much of it on the road.
It is bad enough that I could just hear a bad front bearing, which has been replaced during the mechanical inspection to transfer ownership, so everything else under there is in decent shape.

I had one of my HydroEdges that cupped really bad and was the loudest tire, I couldn't have that one on the front it was so loud. It was also a replacement tire for one that had some sidewall damage, only one that cupped, no other tires ever cupped on my car, even my new Pirelli's with 10k miles. It was a defective tire.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
The RR sounds like its an off truck road tire, and the rest have a bit of the off road tire rumble, but mostly just normal tire noise but louder, and very loud on older pavement where the aggregate protrudes.
They also slap into cracks or expansion joints quite loudly too. I think a lot of it, is the rubber is harder and there is so much of it on the road.
It is bad enough that I could just hear a bad front bearing, which has been replaced during the mechanical inspection to transfer ownership, so everything else under there is in decent shape.


This sounds like irregular wear - and cutting the tire up is only going to make it worse.

Does running them backwards for a while have any chance of reducing cupping or tread feathering?

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Does running them backwards for a while have any chance of reducing cupping or tread feathering?


Perhaps.

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
.....
First, the issue of smaller tread elements causing higher pitched noise: There are 2 mechanisms generating noise in tires: a) air flowing in and out of the tread as the tire rolls, and b) The tread elements themselves vibrating.

Cutting bits of rubber off the tread may open up the tread and make for less noise - or even lower pitched noise - but at the same time, if smaller tread elements are created, then the noise might increase, particularly in the higher frequencies.

And at this point I should point out that I am NOT an expert in tire noise. I know a bit about it, but not enough be definitive. I probably know enough to be dangerous........................


First of all, siping does not create wide grooves at all, really thin cuts, from my experience. You get lower frequencies because tread stiffness decreases, a "K/M" resonant frequency lowering effect, as the tread strikes the ground and siping allows more squirm to occur.

 

[Rand]

Just buy new tires.. wait for the labor day sales.

 

[ryanschillinger]

If you take them off with plenty of tread, don't hesitate to put them on craigslist! Most people are not as picky as us. You could probably recoup $200 of the cost of new tires by selling your old tires.

 

[ryanschillinger]

Or you could try having a tire shop dismount all 4, and mount them the other direction. Then you would have basically rotated them side to side. I remember when I used to work in a tire shop, people would have that done. I think it was mainly to prolong the useful life of the tires, but I think it would help change the wear pattern and decrease the road noise after they start wearing in again. Just make sure you mark what position they came from, so you can put the RF to LF, RR to LR and know they did the work correctly.