87 BMW 325 eta M20B27 high metals, 1700mi M1 0w40

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: chrisri
Other than lead all metals are fine. Lead is a bit higher than I would like to see personally. Oil dropped in viscosity to a 30 grade in only 1.7k for whatever reason. I would look into injectors for possible leaks, and if you are planning to do more tracking, consider some of the heavier KV100 oils of 15 cSt.

Interesting.

The lab says no fuel and viscosity was a 40 so I've gotta ask whether you are even looking at the original post or just typing for the fun of it.


Op.

As overkill has said without trended data there is no real way to say that wear metals are high. You need data to compare and that data has to come from your engine.
And you cannot compare wear metals on 2 different oils and call one better than the other as far as wear metals are concerned. A uoa doesn't work like that. They don't accurately measure wear vs different lubricants and because you are tracking the vehicle you'll never get any real trends developed because nothing is consistent.

Personally I wouldn't even bother with the uoa. No real insight can be gleaned from them. A uoa is done to monitor the condition of the oil and monitor filtration as well as contamination. Your intervals are so short the uoa is pointless.

 

[chrisri]

With lower flashpoint and a KV100 viscosity of 11.08 this oil isn't a 40 grade oil in my book. That's why I recommended to a OP to move to a thicker 40 grade oil. Lower flashpoint would indicate some fuel dilution of the oil even though fuel is only found in traces.

 

[userfriendly]

I'm with you on this one chrisri. If you go back 10 years on this site, you will see members putting 15W40 HDMO in everything with fantastic results.
The problem now, I think is that 15W40s can be purchased on sale for under $3.00 a liter with the option of low, medium and high saps.
How can a product be both cheap and good at the same time?
Something must be wrong with it.

Because of the possibility of base oil interchangeability issues, I no longer blend two multi-grade engine oils together.
Instead, I will add in this case, the same mono-grade SAE 30 to the same brand of 15W40.
The other way around works just as well, by blending SAE 40 to the same brand of 10W30.
The 2nd combination is in my DuraMax, the oil pressure is lower than straight 15W40 as my KV100 is approximately 13.2 instead of the usual 15.2-15.8 range. My HTHS is around 3.9, lower than the 15W40s 4.3-4.5 HTHS.
This winter I plan on adding 25% SAE 40 to HDMO 0W30, instead of buying 5W40. The blend should be more shear stable, than 5W40.

Edit; I think the viscosity loss is typical of low priced 0W40s. Blaming imagined fuel dilution is being too kind. I'm sure when this oil is used in competition applications, the OCI is not off the OLM.

 

[chrisri]

I'm not bashing M1 oil here, it's great product for its intended use. From various UOAs we can see it's a bit share prone, but modern engines doesn't seems to care much because oil analysis are usually great with those. But we also have to admit that it didn't do good job in this 30 years old BMW. It was in service for only 1.7k so it should be looked as a brand new oil. What would happen if OP left this fill for a 15k miles?
Ideal oil viscosity for European engines IMO would be 10w40, but we have to compromise with 5w40 since these days they do not carry modern OEM approvals, and in general are made with budget in mind with inferior base stocks. Of course all of these is valid for European market, and PCMOs, with HDEO price doesn't necessarily correlate with quality of oil.

 

[userfriendly]

I believe that originally 15W40 was a wildcat grade achieved by truckers mixing 10W30 and SAE 50 together to achieve a three season multi-grade oil.
Multi-grade HDMO 40s did not exist at the time, if the story is true.

As the 15W40 grade evolved over the last 25 years, the KV100 went up with the extended OCIs.
Before ULSD and DPFs, the SA was typically 1.5%, TBN 15 and KV100 15.8, almost a 20W50 in some cases.

The 15W40 grade as it was, is all but obsolete.
If SAE 30 KV100 was extended to 13.2 instead of 12.5, the entire SAE 40 grade could be history in 20 years.

Unfortunately in North America the 10W40 got off to a bad start. The conventional blends sheared out of grade quickly, the 10W40 synthetics either not available or very expensive.

I believe if the J300 is left alone, the 10W40s with their fuel saving attributes will replace 15W40s sooner rather than later.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: used_0il

Edit; I think the viscosity loss is typical of low priced 0W40s. Blaming imagined fuel dilution is being too kind. I'm sure when this oil is used in competition applications, the OCI is not off the OLM.


The only place this oil is "low priced" is in North America. In the rest of the world it is extremely expensive. And the fuel dilution, a few points:

1. It has been discussed MANY times on here that Blackstone's measure of fuel dilution is nowhere near accurate.
2. The flash point of the oil went from 446F to 375F. The largest player in the reduction of flashpoint is..... drumroll..... FUEL!!
3. I have run the SAME OIL in an engine MUCH harder on oil, and with 5% fuel (via a different lab), my viscosity was still higher than the OP's, and this was on a 10,000Km OCI.

And yes, I'm sure when the oil is used in competition applications it is changed far more frequently. And this car WAS used in competition applications; tracked for two days as per the OP.

There's nothing wrong with the OP's UOA given the usage. It still had plenty of TBN left, so it could certainly have been run longer but the numbers show the results of a car that was used on a track, this includes the reduction in viscosity and flash point, which go hand-in-hand.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: chrisri
I'm not bashing M1 oil here, it's great product for its intended use. From various UOAs we can see it's a bit share prone, but modern engines doesn't seems to care much because oil analysis are usually great with those. But we also have to admit that it didn't do good job in this 30 years old BMW. It was in service for only 1.7k so it should be looked as a brand new oil. What would happen if OP left this fill for a 15k miles?
Ideal oil viscosity for European engines IMO would be 10w40, but we have to compromise with 5w40 since these days they do not carry modern OEM approvals, and in general are made with budget in mind with inferior base stocks. Of course all of these is valid for European market, and PCMOs, with HDEO price doesn't necessarily correlate with quality of oil.


When a car is driven on the highway and not a racetrack you will see less viscosity loss due to fuel ingress and generally lower metals because the engine isn't being worked hard. This car was tracked for two days so we see both a reduction in viscosity due to fuel as well as slightly higher levels of metals due to the car being beat on. Both are typical for this type of usage.

What we don't see is a dramatic reduction in TBN because of the oil's intended long-OCI usage.

You can see the results in this tuned Audi:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...d#Post3714885

that was not tracked. Viscosity at 12.8 after 7,500 miles with no fuel noted by CAT (which is who I use).

This report:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...35X#Post3668425

Shows viscosity at 12.55 and flashpoint at 395F.

Now this report shows Rotella T6:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...i_e#Post3678202

Going from 14.2cSt down to 11.66cSt but the reduction in flash was from 435F down to 405F, significantly less than the Mobil product, despite greater viscosity loss. This would indicate more actual shear. This car was run on a dyno and had plenty of WOT. Flashpoint was down yet Blackstone still shows no fuel

And yet another report, this time Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5w-40:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...VW_#Post3664472

This oil went from 13.2cSt down to 10.0cSt, flashpoint went from 420F to 355F; a similar reduction in flash to what we see in the OP's UOA but with greater viscosity loss. And yet Blackstone only shows 1% fuel

And then we have this one:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb..._Eu#Post3632653

BMW 535i with PU 5w-40 Euro, flash only dropped from 420F to 405F (very little fuel) but viscosity still tanked from 13.2cSt down to 10.0cSt. No track time. This would show much greater amounts of mechanic shear.