Any issues grooving tread blocks?

[IndyIan]

We've got a new to us 06 CRV with Michelin hydroedge's on it. The tires are very loud, but have lots of tread depth and still work well in the wet.
Anyone tried siping or grooving on these? I would groove just less than the full tread depth and figure its worth a shot before chucking them and spending $6-700.
I can't sell them in good faith either, so I figure its worth a shot.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I don't know about commercial siping on tires that aren't meaty mud style tires or all terrains, but I have done it with all terrain / mud tires and it does help increase traction!

 

[EdwardC]

Why not sell them? Good brand with good tread depth is worth something to someone (maybe they're flipping a car). Is there something wrong with the tires that would make them unsafe? Are they too old?

I didn't think siping would change the road noise much. Is the noise the only complaint?

 

[Nick1994]

I had the Michelin HydroEdge's in the Beetle. After 63,000 miles they still had about 7/32" of tread left. I couldn't take it anymore, it sounded like an airplane going down the highway.

It's worth every penny for new tires than those pieces of garbage, the tread lasts ridiculously long so you'll be miserable for a long time.

Once I got new Pirelli Cinturato P7's I was as happy as can be.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: EdwardC
Why not sell them? Good brand with good tread depth is worth something to someone (maybe they're flipping a car). Is there something wrong with the tires that would make them unsafe? Are they too old?

I didn't think siping would change the road noise much. Is the noise the only complaint?

Yep, noise is the only issue, I was thinking of putting in a more normal groove pattern in the hopes the noise would become normal too!
We probably won't keep the car for more than a couple years and replacing both the summer and snow tires gets expensive.

 

[Cardenio327]

How's the alignment on it?

If you don't drive hard and have tires designed to last a long time the alignment can be quite a bit out of wack and still not show up as shoulder wear. Bad alignment can generate excessive tire noise. If you or the previous owner just did a tire rotation, the tires can make noise until they break-in to the new position.

I do occasionally have customers come in with Hydroedges that still have 1/3 to 1/2 treadlife left that hate them. When they get 4-5 years old they start to dry out and lose traction.

 

[IndyIan]

I'll have to check the records to see when the last alignment was done. It seems fine, no pulling or the back tires fighting each other with excessive toe and camber.

 

[stephen9666]

I can't see how adding sipes would lessen any noise.

I say either live with it or replace the tires.

 

[Kuato]

Have you thought about a rotation? Sometimes noise issues can be solved by rotating frequently.

 

[Rand]

Buy tires during a sale period.. example: the 4th of july sale that just had triple rebates.

Sell tires on craigslist.

 

[CapriRacer]

First thing I would do is a rotation. If the noise changes - particularly location - then you have irregular wear and that is usually caused by an alignment issue.

If you don't get a change in noise, then carving a new tread pattern might be interesting, but I am not predicting it will solve the problem. It might make it worse as you will be introducing more noise producing elements. It might make the noise higher pitched - smaller elements.

 

[Hokiefyd]

HydroEdges have a particularly hard compound it seems and, combined with the chevron tread pattern, they're commonly noted as being very loud tires (and firm, as far as ride quality goes). You didn't note any cracking, inherent balance issues, or other material defects -- I could very easily sell those tires and try something else.

I've generally found that the straightest and smoothest-looking tread patterns are also the quietest. Tires like the Cooper CS5, Michelin Primacy MXV4 and the Bridgestone Ecopia 422 and its variants are usually very quiet. For that CR-V, I think I'd look at the Bridgestone Ecopia 422 Plus (or the original version, if you can find it on clearance) or the Cooper CS5 if it's made in your size.

 

[IndyIan]

I'll do a thorough inspection and try a rotation first then, these are directional so its just a front to back swap, but the noisiest tire does seem to be the back left.
I did go 75mph this morning and the tires seemed to quiet abit so I wonder if the frequency they produce at 55-60mph just happens to transmit through the car well.
It seems on tirerack, that the quietist tires are all 5 rib designs, so just adding a couple grooves to make it a 5 rib might be a good start?

 

[IndyIan]

I guess selling them as is, is the simplest solution. I guess its no secret they are loud tires by now, if anyone cares to google it.
I'll keep an eye out for a deal as well.

 

[ExMachina]

Siping should only be done on newer tires, from what I was told. I used to have this done at Discount Tire (good tire chain), and they mentioned this, maybe because they weren't controlling the depth of cut, don't know.

Siping won't help noise much, but it helps break up wet films on top of ice and water on the road. Thats why you see winter tires with so many tiny sipes built in.

These days I just run the 40,000 mile high speed rated Michelin Xice3 tires already heavily siped, and that tire acts like an all-season tire too, remarkable really, long wearing.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I'll do a thorough inspection and try a rotation first then, these are directional so its just a front to back swap, but the noisiest tire does seem to be the back left.


Yes, that is a drawback of directional designs -- you can't flip 'em (or, at least you can't flip 'em and still maintain good wet weather performance). Through experience, I can tell you that the CR-V will produce directional wear on its tires unless the alignment is really set up to minimize tire wear. Lots of toe-in produces very nice turn-in and response, but will sawtooth the outer shoulder of the front tires and will sawtooth the inner shoulder of the rear tires (due to the negative camber in the rear). Neutral toe sort of waters-down steering response, but really extends the shoulder life of the tires.

Being able to cross rotate tires on vehicles like this is key to that wear pattern. As long as you can routinely cross them, you can keep the sawtoothing beat down (as it alternates directions) so it stays pretty flat. If that sawtoothing takes and keeps hold, however, as it will do with directional tires, the only remedy is tire replacement, shaving the tire, or reversing them to wear them "backwards".

 

[IndyIan]

I did think of running them backwards for a while, but wasn't going to ask here! But maybe cross rotating them for a couple weeks with some vigorous figure 8's in a parking lot to help them loose the wear pattern could help?
I can drive all the way to work at 55-60mph so aquaplaning shouldn't be a big problem.

 

[ccap41]

Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
First thing I would do is a rotation. If the noise changes - particularly location - then you have irregular wear and that is usually caused by an alignment issue.

If you don't get a change in noise, then carving a new tread pattern might be interesting, but I am not predicting it will solve the problem. It might make it worse as you will be introducing more noise producing elements. It might make the noise higher pitched - smaller elements.



What road/tire noise is the air pinching out between the road and tire. If there are less tread pinching out air(adding sipes) it should decrease the noise as the blocks of tread will be smaller or a shorter disance for the air to travel to get out. Now will this actually work with "after market" siping..I don't know. But it shouldn't increase the noise.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I did think of running them backwards for a while, but wasn't going to ask here! But maybe cross rotating them for a couple weeks with some vigorous figure 8's in a parking lot to help them loose the wear pattern could help?
I can drive all the way to work at 55-60mph so aquaplaning shouldn't be a big problem.


To my knowledge, running a directional tire backwards is 100% okay, with the understanding that you lose the benefit of the water-sweeping chevrons in the tread pattern. In fact, it's in theory even worse than a conventional straight-rib tire, because the tread pattern will tend to gather water towards the center of the tire instead of pushing it outwards toward the sides. You'd want to be careful on your commute, if it's at 55+ mph, on wet pavement, because you're at greater risk of hydroplaning as speeds increase.

But mechanically, in terms of the tire, as long as you're on dry pavement, or at least acknowledge the compromise when driving through standing water or snow/slush, running them backwards should be just fine.

 

[ExMachina]

Actually, I think siping might reduce noise. Shifts the frequency response to lower pitches. Hard tread with no sipes is higher pitched, more annoying, like Fran Drescher tires.