Abrupt shift from 1st to 2nd gear

[Quattro Pete]

This is on the wife's Q5 with the ZF 8HP transmission that is widely used in many other vehicles as well. It has done this since day 1. Right now it has 5K miles.

When you first start driving (on a completely cold engine/trans), regardless if summer or winter, the trans seems to hold onto that 1st gear unusually long, and then somewhat violently/abruptly dumps it into 2nd gear. It only does it this one time. All the subsequent 1->2 shifts are smooth. I could come to a stop 5 seconds after that and then start moving again, and that next 1st --> 2nd shift will now be smooth.

None of the other automatic trans I've ever driven did anything like it, but my experience with automatics is rather limited in general, so I don't want to use this as a benchmark. I've asked on an audi forum, and it seems that about half of all Q5 owners experience this, and most just consider it normal. Is it? Is it just a matter of the transmission needing some movement of the parts to get the fluid circulating properly?

I can certainly bring it to the dealer's attention next time she goes in for service, but getting them to reproduce this issue is going to be the tough part.

 

[Phishin]

My Honda Accord does the same thing. It's not so bad in the summer, but in the winter, I've dumped coffee down the front of my shirt because of this shift.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I've never experienced that in anything I've owned. My 2011 Toyota Camry was the opposite: the first 1-2 shift of the day would be a very slow/laggy/slippy shift. All others felt normal.

Does throttle position affect it? In other words, if you're super light on the throttle or moderately heavy---is it still a violent 1-2 shift?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Does throttle position affect it? In other words, if you're super light on the throttle or moderately heavy---is it still a violent 1-2 shift?

Good question. The issue can only be noticed when you're light or relatively light on the throttle. If you gun it, you don't really notice it, but where we live right now, gunning it is not really an option, not to mention it's probably not great for a cold engine either.

 

[JTK]

Totally different vehicle, but I'd get an occasional 1-2 slam on my 2008 Hyundai Santa Fe 2.7L, with 4spd auto. It was only after a cold start and only on the very first 1-2 shift.

I just attributed it to the programming associated with warm-up.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: JTK
I just attributed it to the programming associated with warm-up.

The only reason I don't think it's programming in my case is that I can repeat that 1>2 shift within a few seconds of the first one, and it'll be smooth. There is no way the trans/engine would have had a chance to warm up within just a few seconds.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
This is on the wife's Q5 with the ZF 8HP transmission that is widely used in many other vehicles as well. It has done this since day 1. Right now it has 5K miles.

When you first start driving (on a completely cold engine/trans), regardless if summer or winter, the trans seems to hold onto that 1st gear unusually long, and then somewhat violently/abruptly dumps it into 2nd gear. It only does it this one time. All the subsequent 1->2 shifts are smooth. I could come to a stop 5 seconds after that and then start moving again, and that next 1st --> 2nd shift will now be smooth.



I've had old fully-analog 3-speed Torqueflites do that when they get a lot of miles on them- the governor valve gets a little sticky. But I've never experienced it with any computer-controlled auto. I know the 8HP in the Chrysler rear-drives has had a few software updates to address some shifting quirks, but I don't recall a harsh 1->2 shift being among them.

 

[Whimsey]

Can you check to see if there are any TSB"s for computer re-flashing concerning this issue. I would not always trust the dealer to be up to speed on TSB's

.

Whimsey

 

[demarpaint]

I've read a few similar complaints about the 8 speed ZF on Jeep and Ram forums. IIRC several of them had the valve body replaced. Not all of them do it and the valve body replacement is a hit or miss fix.

I also read about what 440Magnum mentioned as well. Overall it is supposed to be a good unit.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Good suggestion, Whimsey. I will ask around.

 

[brandini]

It's just cold fluid. My Mazda6 did it when cold on the first shift of the day. After swapping the OE fluid to Amsoil SS at 30k miles it nearly disappeared.

Also a nifty trick to simply avoid the shift shock... start in 2nd.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: brandini
Also a nifty trick to simply avoid the shift shock... start in 2nd.

Interesting. I'm going to try that if I don't forget.

 

[Quattro Pete]

I forgot to add that I'm not that annoyed with it that I would typically bother to switch it into manual mode and start from 2nd, but I'll be curious to try it just to see.

And my wife probably doesn't even notice this, or at least I have not heard any complaints yet.

 

[DeepFriar]

I have had several vehicles that did this. It was explained to me that a lower gear and the lockup torque converter were held in order to get engine temp up to light off the catalysts to aid emissions. I can not vouch for that but it seems logical. It also seems that, as others have said, that programming may be the culprit and some questions to the dealer or other board/forums might be another way to check.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: DeepFriar
I have had several vehicles that did this. It was explained to me that a lower gear and the lockup torque converter were held in order to get engine temp up to light off the catalysts to aid emissions.

In just 1st gear and only once??? How is that going to light anything up?

 

[DeepFriar]

It might not be only first gear. The theory, as explained to me by the tech, was that holding the lower gear(s) for an initial period got the EGT to temperature more quickly helping cat action. The first time I saw it in the early '70s on a Charger and since then on both GM and various foreign cars I've owned. The 5.3 GM I have now does not come out of first till 30mph (with a small clunk) when first started. When warm it hardly pauses in first before going to second. I'm only sharing what I have observed and what I was told. YMMV.

 

[GSCJR]

My '03 Toyota does the same thing (more frequently in extreme cold); but only if I let off the accelerator pedal or hold the pedal in the same spot (locked ankle). I can tell when it's going to happen so to prevent it I press on the pedal further. It will hold the gear longer but shifts into 2nd normally.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: DeepFriar
It might not be only first gear. The theory, as explained to me by the tech, was that holding the lower gear(s) for an initial period got the EGT to temperature more quickly helping cat action.

Either I'm failing to explain the circumstances or you're failing to understand them. Let's just leave it at that.

 

[turtlevette]

How about this. There is a very slow leak somewhere in an oil gallery in the valve body, or 1/2 Accumulator that takes all night to drain. Shifting is delayed as it takes some time to fill back up on the first shift. Once full of oil it operates normally.

 

[threeputtpar]

That is just a basic characteristic of ZF transmissions and their programming. The 5HP19 in my A6 has done it every winter since I bought it 7 years ago. The colder the outside weather, the longer it holds 1st and the more abrupt the upshift. No need to worry about it, even though it's annoying.