How Long Before One Gets Loose In The Stands?

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That was pretty close last night. They were lucky, as was Dillon, the car hit at the base of the catch fence, and not higher. Another thing was the fact he was fortunate enough to go in bottom first, and not top end first like Dan Wheldon. If he had there would have been pieces of him everywhere in the stands. There was enough force in spite of going in bottom first, to rip the engine and transmission from the car, and all but cut it in two.

This wreck shows the strength of the catch fence. But it also shows how close we've come time and time again to a car almost getting into the crowd. Sooner or later someone's luck is going to run out. There were people hurt in the stands last night. They were lucky. One of these days, if a car gets loose, they'll lose hundreds.
 
Originally Posted By: Chris Meutsch
Tony Stewart was very lucky that he went under without getting his head ripped off.......


Yes he was. No matter what they do from an aero standpoint, they cannot keep these cars from flying. There is just too much surface area, (especially underneath), and too little weight for the speeds they're traveling at. They sail like kites under the right, (or wrong depending how you look at it), conditions.

We've seen more and more cars getting airborne during big wrecks on these super speedways. There is no way to prevent it. They're hitting the fence airborne with greater frequency then they did when Allison's car took off several years back. Track design prevents much of anything being done about it.

Slowing the cars down won't prevent it because they would be required to slow them to the point it would be almost too boring to watch. Which it is now, except for all the big wrecks the people come to see in the first place. Along with the disorganized insanity of the last few laps. I can't help but think this is nothing more than a horrible disaster just waiting to happen. When you compare NASCAR super speedways to most Formula 1 tracks with their well designed run offs and gravel traps, the super speedways all but look like they're designed to tempt the fate of the crowd.

We've already had many people injured by debris coming off the cars in these various catch fence wrecks at these tracks. If one ever does get loose in the stands, that will be the end of NASCAR as we now know it.
 
As soon as NASCAR does something to put an end to 3 wide, 8 deep, nose to tail racing on the last lap...

Yes, that means finding an alternative to the restrictor plate.

And it wasn't difficult to see that Junior was not himself during the post-race interview.
 
Give them more horsepower, less aero and harder tires. Make them actually have to slow down entering 1 and 3. This will break up the packs which cause all these aero incidents. They'll be coming off the turns 20mph slower. Yeah, they may be well over 200 mph going into the turns, just like Michigan and Pocono, but you don't see problems at those tracks because they aren't in packs. Keep spectators away from the end of the longest straights.
 
I may be wrong. In fact I hope I'm wrong. But I just don't see how you can regulate this type of danger away from these high speed, tri oval super speedways. Bill France designed tracks like Daytona and Talladega for 200 MPH speeds, because he saw that was the direction the sport was headed, and where the fans wanted it to go.

Put 40+ cars at that speed in close proximity to one another, with fans just a few feet away separated by a fence, and it's a disaster waiting to happen. I think NASCAR has been very lucky thus far. Especially after last night. With that said, giving them more power and allowing them to separate might be an improvement. Hard to say at this point.
 
Auto racing is dangerous. They can just double the fence but then the view is obscured and fans will complain.

When you sit there...you assume the risk.
When you drive one of those cars you assume the risk.

"If you're not first...you're last".....Reese Bobby
 
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Originally Posted By: Doog
Auto racing is dangerous.


Very true. And as far as super speedway racing, NASCAR seems to be doing everything possible to make it even more so.
 
Change from big block V8 360 cubic inch
to 318 small block v8's...

NASCAR went from 454 to 360 in the 70's....

Allow big block V6's on short tracks.
with the better gas mileage,
the loss of power would be offset...
 
I was amazed that Dillon got out of that car and seemed fine. The forces of that crash must be off the charts.

Junior was definitely shaken up judging by his interview after and I think just about all the drivers were. They have seen plenty of crashes that the guys didn't get so lucky as Dillon did.
 
If everyone has the same kit car and engine then there will be times when no one backs off because to lose the slightest bit of momentum means that you're not going to catch up.

In some of these big crashes the cause looks obvious but in reality it may have started before the first contact when drivers committed themselves and had no way out. The driver that tries to avoid the crash may be the one that caused the first contact and the rest is just one big pile up.

And besides, why would NASCAR be in a hurry to stop the crashes and kill the goose that's that lays golden eggs.
 
I regret that some of the fans would be proud to have scars from flying NASCAR debris.

Additionally, the crashes are what keeps them coming and watching, same basic instincts as applied 2000 years ago to the Forum in Rome. Selective Evolution?
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Doog
Auto racing is dangerous.


Very true. And as far as super speedway racing, NASCAR seems to be doing everything possible to make it even more so.


Yeah but it's the fastest who gets paid and the fastest who gets laid.... R Bobby
grin2.gif
 
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Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
And besides, why would NASCAR be in a hurry to stop the crashes and kill the goose that's that lays golden eggs.


I'll just leave this here.

mm.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: KGMtech
Additionally, the crashes are what keeps them coming and watching, same basic instincts as applied 2000 years ago to the Forum in Rome. Selective Evolution?


Great observation about perspective into the past. I'm not saying that all NASCAR fans turnout for the wrecks, but if wrecks are a bit part of the draw, it's not due to its fans being members of any one particular social class, ethnic background, income bracket, etc. It's simply human nature -- and it's been going on for thousands of years. In fact, few today acknowledge and recognize the sheer brutality that was normal not very long ago.

People'd turn out to watch a gun duel. Public executions used to be very common (and popular). They'd fight human against animal (or human against human) until death in Roman coliseums.

Most of what we see as useless risk today pales in comparison to what was once common. I'm not saying it is or isn't appropriate. Just observing perspective with respect to history.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Doog
Auto racing is dangerous.


Very true. And as far as super speedway racing, NASCAR seems to be doing everything possible to make it even more so.

Care to explain that one??

The cars and tracks are FAR safer than just 10 years ago... Had Dale Sr been using the HANS device(was yet to be introduced), likely he'd still be alive... AFAIK, hasn't been anyone killed in the Cup Series since Dale Sr and that was 14 years ago, prior a driver was killed every about couple years... Also most all tracks now have SAFER barriers around the track that softens the impact when a car(s) slam into the wall...

Originally Posted By: mattwithcats
Change from big block V8 360 cubic inch
to 318 small block v8's...

NASCAR went from 454 to 360 in the 70's....

Allow big block V6's on short tracks.
with the better gas mileage,
the loss of power would be offset...



Now that would [censored] me off... Around a dozen years ago, NASCAR used 4.5L V6 in the Bush Series(now xfinity) sounded like a mad swarm of bees... Couldn't stand one of those races...

BTW a 360 Chrysler was never a big block, it's actually same in external physical dimensions as a small block 318... Current limit is 358cu in and has been since the '70s(yes that meant Chrysler had to shrink their engines slightly)...
 
As has already been stated, racing is dangerous. Both for participants and fans.

There have been several injuries and deaths, for both participants and spectators, in the racing series I'm involved in. The participants know the risks, and the spectators are made aware of the risks, before the set foot on the premises.

If that risk is deemed unacceptable, then that person shouldn't be there.
 
Originally Posted By: mattwithcats
Change from big block V8 360 cubic inch
to 318 small block v8's...

NASCAR went from 454 to 360 in the 70's....

Allow big block V6's on short tracks.
with the better gas mileage,
the loss of power would be offset...



Dammed edit time limit got me...

Also a 454 was never allowed -- PERIOD, limit was never more than 7 Liters, or 427cu in...
 
Originally Posted By: TFB1
Care to explain that one?? The cars and tracks are FAR safer than just 10 years ago...


Cars yes, tracks... Not so much. Auto racing in general has always been based on "Tombstone Technology". Earnhardt's death mandated HANS Devices and full face helmets. Bush's hard infield wall impact changed the infield wall angle, took out grass for pavement, and put in added safer barriers. Just as I'm sure this accident will set off alarm bells, spark an "investigation", and perhaps improve fencing somehow. Assuming that NASCAR, in their infinite wisdom, pay more attention to it instead of Confederate flags.

But until they break up pack racing, along with the airborne wrecks it produces, they will be basically treading water until the next one happens. I agree with bigt61. Give them more horsepower, less aero and harder tires. They won't remove the restrictor plates, in spite of the fact about the only one who wants them anymore is NASCAR. The fans and the drivers certainly don't. A super speedway isn't one without "super speeds". With that said it's nonsense for these guys to be riding around in a pack with their foot on the floorboards, unable to get away from each other.

I remember when they first opened Talladega back in the late 60's. They asked the late, great Smokey Yunick what he thought of the track. He said, "They made it backwards. The stands should be on the infield side of the track". They asked him why. He responded, "When cars wreck at 200+ MPH which side of the track do they hit the most?" He had a point.
 
NASCAR is a modern vaudeville show but with advertising everywhere. The fact that there are cars going around in circles is just an operational detail. They want people to look at the self propelled billboards and call the parade a race and what better way to focus their attention than to have an accident or two. And they're doing a great job of it all.
 
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