Changing tire balance with temperature

[Oldmoparguy1]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
When temperature changes from 70 to 100 tire pressure is up 3 PSI, the tires face afternoon sun have much higher temperature up to 20-30 higher, therefore those tires can have as much as 5-6 PSI above morning pressure before driving.

I would check pressure in the morning and don't have it more than placard, then afternoon it will be no more than 2-3 PSI above placard.

Yes! I have a good gauge. Thanks. Good place to start.
I was thinking rotate tires front to back.

Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
Ok, last update. The tires run smooth, no symptoms of out of balance. This has been an odd experience.

What did you do to cure the problem ? Adjusted pressure or rotated front to back or both ?

Actually, nothing. I recorded tire pressures cold & hot, morning & afternoon for several days. I never found anything that related to the situation. I've been driving and fixing cars since I was 12. I'm now 78. I dono..

 

[raytseng]

yes tires do need to break in and over the first 500miles they will react differently.
But I wouldn't expect the break-in to result in such a drastic a vibration change, especially with a temperature variable.

Could be that the treads blocks may have sharp new corners that need to "wear" in to the specific alignment of your car, so at the particular speed and temp were causing the blocks to scrubbing causing vibration.

You may need to keep an eye on it when or if you rotate your tires, you might get vibrations back. You'll have to decide whether the benefits of rotation are worth the reversion back to vibration.
(it's not written in stone that you MUST always rotate tires).

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
Actually, nothing. I recorded tire pressures cold & hot, morning & afternoon for several days. I never found anything that related to the situation. I've been driving and fixing cars since I was 12. I'm now 78. I dono..

The problem went away by itself then you shouldn't do anything to the car for now. Hope that the vibration will not come back.

 

[Oldmoparguy1]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
Actually, nothing. I recorded tire pressures cold & hot, morning & afternoon for several days. I never found anything that related to the situation. I've been driving and fixing cars since I was 12. I'm now 78. I dono..

The problem went away by itself then you shouldn't do anything to the car for now. Hope that the vibration will not come back.


These are 90k rated tires, if I get 60-70k out of them, I'll be happy. These mopar minivans are hard on tires and brakes.
with new brakes and new tires, it drives like a new car.

 

[Oldmoparguy1]

It's back. This morning there was some shake with the right front, just a minute or 2, then smooth. 2 hours later, some shake on both front wheels. OAT was 83* both times. The thing is, this really a small thing. Most drivers probably wouldn't notice. This nonsense! I'm going to email Continental to see what they say. Also, I might have the tires rotated front to back. I'm wondering if I have some sort of front end issue.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
It's back. This morning there was some shake with the right front, just a minute or 2, then smooth. 2 hours later, some shake on both front wheels. OAT was 83* both times. The thing is, this really a small thing. Most drivers probably wouldn't notice. This nonsense! I'm going to email Continental to see what they say. Also, I might have the tires rotated front to back. I'm wondering if I have some sort of front end issue.


This is sounding very much like flatspotting. Try using 3 psi more and see what happens.

 

[tc96]

I had the same thing happen with my controlcontact tour as tires which I bought in July.

In summer I would get vibrations at 70-75 which would not go away. Discount tire rebalanced twice but couldn't get rid of it. They thought it was bad suspension. My car mechanic thought it was bad rotors.

Now as temps have dropped, I am not feeling the vibrations anymore.

It looks like the tire is affected by flatspotting in warm/hot tempretures.

Thanks,
tc

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
It's back. This morning there was some shake with the right front, just a minute or 2, then smooth. 2 hours later, some shake on both front wheels. OAT was 83* both times. The thing is, this really a small thing. Most drivers probably wouldn't notice. This nonsense! I'm going to email Continental to see what they say. Also, I might have the tires rotated front to back. I'm wondering if I have some sort of front end issue.


This is sounding very much like flatspotting. Try using 3 psi more and see what happens.


That's what I was thinking. would 90k rated tyres be made from a less pliable material that when cold wouldn' go round again when you start moving. Until the thread warms up a bit, I mean...

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic

That's what I was thinking. would 90k rated tyres be made from a less pliable material that when cold wouldn' go round again when you start moving. Until the thread warms up a bit, I mean...


No!!

Compared to the stiffness of the rest of the tire, tread compounds are very soft and don't appreciably affect stiffness.

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Originally Posted By: Jetronic

That's what I was thinking. would 90k rated tyres be made from a less pliable material that when cold wouldn' go round again when you start moving. Until the thread warms up a bit, I mean...


No!!

Compared to the stiffness of the rest of the tire, tread compounds are very soft and don't appreciably affect stiffness.


that's not exactly what I meant. would the compound used for the sidewallsbe different from the thread?

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Originally Posted By: Jetronic

That's what I was thinking. would 90k rated tyres be made from a less pliable material that when cold wouldn' go round again when you start moving. Until the thread warms up a bit, I mean...


No!!

Compared to the stiffness of the rest of the tire, tread compounds are very soft and don't appreciably affect stiffness.


That's not exactly what I meant. Would the compound used for the sidewallsbe different from the tread?
Yes, but the sidewall for a 90k tire would be the same as for a 20k tire.

 

[Rand]

How does that work when you have a max performance summer tire that goes 20k miles vs a standard touring 90000 mile tire.. obviously the sidewall is very different.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: Rand
How does that work when you have a max performance summer tire that goes 20k miles vs a standard touring 90000 mile tire.. obviously the sidewall is very different.


No, the sidewalls are very much the same - all other things being equal. What is different is the tread area - cap plies, tread compound, tread width, void ratio......

And just to clarify: When I say the word "sidewall" I am meaning the rubber covering over the plies and not the plies themselves. That was the topic here.

But if you want to discuss what MIGHT be different about the plies and the other parts of the tire in the sidewall area, more than happy to.

 

[Oldmoparguy1]

Originally Posted By: tc96
I had the same thing happen with my controlcontact tour as tires which I bought in July.

In summer I would get vibrations at 70-75 which would not go away. Discount tire rebalanced twice but couldn't get rid of it. They thought it was bad suspension. My car mechanic thought it was bad rotors.

Now as temps have dropped, I am not feeling the vibrations anymore.

It looks like the tire is affected by flatspotting in warm/hot tempretures.

Thanks,
tc


Well, that's interesting. With 5500 miles on the tires, the out of balance shake was back on the right front. Had DT balance/rotate tires, then took a 2000 mile trip to MI. It is still somehow related to road surface. I have continued to collect data on this and I'm beginning to think there is some sort of resonance between the road, tread shape and the car suspension. I'm beginning to think there might be some sort of problem on the right front. Other then that, the tires are great. Had to drive in snow and ice for several hours through MI and Ohio on the way back. No problems. Tires are great in the wet.
I will be looking at this more. Need to have the toe-in checked as well.

 

[bonjo]

I had similar problems: inconsistent out of balance wheel symtoms.

when I first use the car, it seemed fine at cruising speeds of 75~85mph but after a while a wobble would set within that speed range.

In the end after many wheel balancing and checking all the suspension components, I changed the tyres and all is fine now.

The car had been in storage of 18 months with the wheels on the car and I had a suspicion the tyres were flat spotted.