Recommend me a good European oil for my Honda

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: Kamele0N

1) Low Saps oils are needed on modern GDI and T-GDI ( FSI & TFSI) engines due to less valve deposits build up.....plus modern gasoline engines have particulate filters too

2) EU has E5-10 on most petrol stations.....and up to 5% biodiesel in diesel




Well, for 1, there are currently NO manufacturers of gasoline DI engines that specifically require a low-SAPS oil in North America that I know of. None of the Hyundai's, GM's, Toyota's, Lexus', Honda's, Mazda's, etc specifically state that they need such oil. The owner's manuals usually state that an ILSAC GF-5 and API SN oil should be used (and of course the recommended grade). Now, we here on BITOG may want to use a low-SAPS oil in a GDI engine due to the perceived benefits proclaimed by Lubrizol with respect to intake valve deposits, but manufacturers have not really embraced this as a requirement yet.

Also, I have never come across ANY gasoline engine (DI or otherwise) with a particulate filter. Can you provide some examples?

Furthermore, the original poster's Honda is a 2009 with the 2.0 L port-injected 4-cylinder engine. It does not in any way require a low-SAPS oil, period. Therefore, it is not required to use the C3 oil that the OP is currently using. He can choose to run an A3 oil and achieve longer drain intervals due to higher starting TBN, and "possibly" better wear protection (I quote that because there were some comments on here at one point that questioned the absolute wear protection of low-SAPS oils, but I cannot confirm nor deny those comments).

 

[Kamele0N]

Originally Posted By: il_signore97

Also, I have never come across ANY gasoline engine (DI or otherwise) with a particulate filter. Can you provide some examples?



EURO 6 norm is comming in september

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/automotive/environment/euro5/index_en.htm

Sooner or later manufacturers will be forced to equipe their cars with them....yes I was too quick with my answer.....

http://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publications/GDI%20Briefing_final_T%26E.pdf

Also we have ACEA A4/B4/C3 spec....

for instance: http://olie.ndi.eu/Produktdatablad/Agip Formula MS B04.pdf

 

[volodymyr]

Kamele0N,

Originally Posted By: Kamele0N

Also we have ACEA A4/B4/C3 spec....
for instance: http://olie.ndi.eu/Produktdatablad/Agip Formula MS B04.pdf


These mixed A3/B4 and C3 combinations usually mean that the oil is certified by ACEA A3/B4 for the 2004 year which sets quite low requirements on antiwear additives so it can be combined with Low SAPS C3.

Usually the oil manufactures do not want to puzzle 'normal users' and specify the year of the ACEA specification they are using, but I am sure if you dig deeper you will find out that this oil is only certified with ACEA A3/B4-04.

 

[volodymyr]

Olas,

Originally Posted By: Olas
The best European oils available come from Millers, Motul and Fuchs.


Some Eastern European forums blame Motul for poor quality control and there are some bad complains out there about Motul oils.

Also, most of my colleges at work are French and somehow they prefer German cars over French cars as well as they trust more to 'made in Germany' rather than 'made in France'

 

[edyvw]

On Euro HWY's, def one grade up compare to US.

 

[Popsy]

Originally Posted By: volodymyr
Some Eastern European forums blame Motul for poor quality control and there are some bad complains out there about Motul oils.

Also, most of my colleges at work are French and somehow they prefer German cars over French cars as well as they trust more to 'made in Germany' rather than 'made in France'

I've always had mixed feelings regarding Motul oils...I hesitate to try the 300V, since it is fairly priced here, but it seems to be a bit "sludge prone" in a normal use (no racing). The X-cess 5W40 is also in my list of interest, but I remember some mixed UOA with, so... Many garages out there use X-clean or X-cess 5W40 in all car, but also most garage don't think twice on the oil they are using

As far as French cars are involved...well...suffice it to say I don't want to buy one, except maybe some oldies with collector value, like old Citroën, Venturi, or even older. Recent French cars just don't have any attraction on me, maybe that's because 90% of people around there buy boring models with boring motors, full with fuzzy electronics, and so many of the French cars I came across don't have a motor that sound perfectly healthy? lol

 

[weasley]

Originally Posted By: volodymyr
Kamele0N,

Originally Posted By: Kamele0N

Also we have ACEA A4/B4/C3 spec....
for instance: http://olie.ndi.eu/Produktdatablad/Agip Formula MS B04.pdf


These mixed A3/B4 and C3 combinations usually mean that the oil is certified by ACEA A3/B4 for the 2004 year which sets quite low requirements on antiwear additives so it can be combined with Low SAPS C3.

Usually the oil manufactures do not want to puzzle 'normal users' and specify the year of the ACEA specification they are using, but I am sure if you dig deeper you will find out that this oil is only certified with ACEA A3/B4-04.


Indeed. Look at that PDS and you see it is dated August 2007. It is impossible to have ACEA A3/B4 and C3 together under the current (2012) ACEA specifications, since A3/B4 requires sulphated ash 1.0-1.6 %wt, whereas ACEA C3 requires <0.8%wt. It is also forbidden to use obsolete ACEA claims (for example, those from 2010, 2008 etc).

 

[volodymyr]

weasley,

Originally Posted By: weasley
It is also forbidden to use obsolete ACEA claims (for example, those from 2010, 2008 etc).


I am not sure about this. Here in Europe some of the oil manufactures sell old ACEA oils, for example, Valvoline (Ashland) SynPower 5W-30 which has ACEA A3/B4-10: http://www.reifendirekt.ch/cgi-bin/oshop...icle_disabled=1

Also, among different oils only Valvoline and Liqui Moly specifies the year of the ACEA spec they certify oils against. Others do not specify this information at all, so you can assume the worst probably.

Some of the Liqui Moly oils especially in 5W-30 grade are actually ACEA A3/B4-04

 

[Garak]

I'd have to look into it, but I'm pretty sure there is a provision to use older specifications, provided they are shown as you indicate. I don't think they're supposed to go back more than one or two sequences, though, and some oil companies do go a fair bit further back than that.

 

[Jetronic]

If the year is not specced, it has to be the latest revision. You can add the year to the spec if it complies with the previous spec, for a year or 2.

2012 was the latest to my knowledge, so you can add -10 if your oil meets that spec, but anything before that isn't allowed. Even -10 isn't allowed anymore since new year...

http://www.acea.be/uploads/publications/2012_ACEA_Oil_Sequences.pdf

 

[Quattro Pete]

It's all described in the PDF that Jetronic linked to above (page 2). Officially, as of 22 Dec 2014, oils complying with ACEA 2010 revision (or older) cannot be marketed.

Another words, anything currently being sold must comply with ACEA 2012 revision.

Of course the real question is: Is it really enforced, how, and by whom?

 

[volodymyr]

I can ask a question to Ashland Valvoline since even in their MSDS it is written that their oil meets ACEA A3/B4-10 only: http://www.valvolineeurope.com/english/products/engine_oils/synpower/cid(7536)/synpower_5w-30

 

[chrisri]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
It's all described in the PDF that Jetronic linked to above (page 2). Officially, as of 22 Dec 2014, oils complying with ACEA 2010 revision (or older) cannot be marketed.

Another words, anything currently being sold must comply with ACEA 2012 revision.

Of course the real question is: Is it really enforced, how, and by whom?

All major oil producers obey ACEA rules to the letter.

 

[Garak]

Not always. Take a look at some of Shell's and Ashland's claims. Shell claims things back as distant as 2002, and the Ashland matter was addressed above. In fairness to Shell, their data sheets haven't been updated since 2002, so perhaps the sheets were accurate when written.

 

[weasley]

You get one year's grace.
You do not put the year suffix on labels/PDSs - that is not for consumer use.
Hence, you should only use the latest version (or the previous one for 1 year after it has been replaced).

Originally Posted By: "ACEA"
For the 2012 issue of the ACEA Oil Sequences: First claims can be made from 14th December 2012. For another year (until 14th December 2013), oil marketers can still make new claims against ACEA 2010. Starting with 14th December 2013 every new claim has to be made against the 2012 ACEA Oil Sequences. All engine oils using
claims against the 2010 ACEA Sequences can be continued to be marketed until 22nd December 2014.

- "Oils with this claim may be marketed until" means that no further marketing of oils with claims to this issue is allowed after the date indicated.

The YEAR numbers for ACEA Sequence is intended only for industry use and indicates the year of implementation of that severity level for the particular category.


So, using older ACEA specs is forbidden (save for the 1 year's grace). Also, using the year suffix is forbidden (since it is redundant, because all oils should meet the current, or at worst the previous, version).

If you find a supplier flouting these rules, perhaps it gives some insight into their compliance with anything else they have claimed? Just a thought.

 

[Garak]

I've seen ACEA year suffixes on many bottle labels and data sheets. In fact, the only ones where I don't see that are Mobil and Castrol. Shell even flouts the rules there, and Valvoline certainly does.

Considering that it's self-policed and there are no official ACEA approval lists, or licenses granted, the ACEAs rules, while very reasonable and sensible, have absolutely no teeth. They get ignored left and right here, from the boutiques all the way up to Shell.

 

[volodymyr]

Garak,

Originally Posted By: Garak


[...]

Shell even flouts the rules there, and Valvoline certainly does.

[...]



Can you please provide some examples of this? Because I am currently using Valvoline oil and I am thinking of moving to Shell Helix Ultra with GTL technology

so I would be interested to know what kind of oils I am using currently and will be using soon.

 

[Garak]

QSUD Euro 5w-40 shows old stuff. The previous data sheet version of QSUD 5w-30. Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30 in its current iteration, along with their Euro 5w-40, and probably several other examples from them.

Petro-Canada lists some odd ACEA specs with some of their HDEOs. Royal Purple's 5w-40 and 0w-40 list older ACEA approvals on the bottle. Valvoline is claiming 2010 sequences on their Euro 5w-40.

I can live with that, since at least the sequence year is listed. What would annoy me is if some oil sold today were compliant only with a 2002 specification, for example, but listed it as if it were modern. Legacy specifications are fine by me, as long as I know what they are.

 

[chrisri]

I've never seen Shell or any oil producer to claim obsolete ACEA spec over here. However I did saw PPE claim A3/B4-10, and even made a post about it if this oil is really the same as Shell Ultra since it doesn't meet the same spec.

 

[Garak]

I wouldn't be surprised that they'd be more careful about what they claim in Europe, since the ACEA specs are more important there. In any case, these two products you mention may be the same. There are some pretty big errors in various data sheets.

Additionally, PPE and Shell Ultra may have the same thing in the bottle. That doesn't necessarily mean they're the "same product" when it comes to actual licensing, or even to what specs they emphasize from a marketing perspective.

It's not exactly the same example, but look at Napa Synthetic 5w-30 and Valvoline SynPower 5w-30. They have separate dexos1 licenses, even though they may be the same thing in different bottles.