PCMO vs HDEO for Small Engines

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: LX289
Originally Posted By: Turk
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: LX289
Just use a synthetic PCMO. OPE isn't that hard on oil. They don't run that high rpm like cars do. That is what I always use. I know OPE is air cooled and cars are liquid cooled but i don't think that they are that hard on oil IMO.


Right
Cause the air filtration is so stellar on OPE not to mention they run at full throttle or idle.
You're incorrect. OPE is the worst duty cycle of all. The oil gets contaminated very quickly because of poor intake air filtration and oil temps get very high. Couple that with very small sumps and you'll understand why my stuff gets changed every 100 hours.



Correct Clevy.

I guess I have used PCMO and never had any problems with oil burn off or engine failure. I only have 4 pieces of OPE a gas trimmer and blower which are 2 cycle and a LX289 lawnmower and a JX75. I use 5w-30 in the LX289 and the JX75 gets Mobil 1 0w-40 Euro



Don't misunderstand me. I'm certainly not saying a synthetic pmco won't work. I'm sure there wouldn't be any issues at all.
What I'm saying because I work my equipment,and the sheer volume of equipment I use daily it's not cost effective to use a synthetic,whether an hdeo or pmco.
We run roughly 18 machines a day. 3-4 generators on different sites and 12-14 5.5hp Honda powered air compressors. We are always windy here and the dust is always brutal. The air filters are sponge/foam and if I'm lucky they are oiled,so dirt intrusion is a very real condition for me.
And they basically run wide open all day long. 10 hours a day,5 sometimes 6 days a week. So every second Saturday im changing oil in everything. It's the first thing I do when I get to the site.
The various crews either start Saturday with new oil in their machines or when they show on Monday.
So a synthetic pmco is more costly than the conventional hdeo I buy. Last Saturday it was "tune it" brand which is supertech's new title at Walmart. Can't beat 55 bucks for a 5 gallon pail of oil.
In the winter I use a 5w-30 pmco though,supertech again. At -20 the oil barely gets hot and after 2 weeks the oil level is actually higher than when I changed it because of fuel dilution. The machine doesn't get hot enough to evaporate the fuel as fast as it intrudes. Not a huge volume increase but it is enough to notice.
If I used a syn I wouldn't get my money's worth,only because that 100 hour/second Saturday is my hard cut off because of the conditions,so why pay more per quart if I'm draining it at that fixed amount regardless.
Right?
I'm not knocking anyone for their choice whether hdeo or pcmo. I'm just outlining why I personally hold to my specific schedule and product.

 

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: Clevy

We run roughly 18 machines a day. 3-4 generators on different sites and 12-14 5.5hp Honda powered air compressors. We are always windy here and the dust is always brutal. The air filters are sponge/foam and if I'm lucky they are oiled,so dirt intrusion is a very real condition for me.
And they basically run wide open all day long. 10 hours a day,5 sometimes 6 days a week. So every second Saturday im changing oil in everything. It's the first thing I do when I get to the site.


Wow Clevy!!

A little off-topic, but I have to ask: Do you run any oil or fuel additives in these engines? If so, which & how often?

Thank you.

 

[Dallas69]

It's easy to check oil when you gas up your mower.
Keep it topped off with anything and it won't matter what you use.
Briggs says not to use anything over a 30 wt, I think.
Don't know about other brands.

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: Turk
Originally Posted By: Clevy

We run roughly 18 machines a day. 3-4 generators on different sites and 12-14 5.5hp Honda powered air compressors. We are always windy here and the dust is always brutal. The air filters are sponge/foam and if I'm lucky they are oiled,so dirt intrusion is a very real condition for me.
And they basically run wide open all day long. 10 hours a day,5 sometimes 6 days a week. So every second Saturday im changing oil in everything. It's the first thing I do when I get to the site.


Wow Clevy!!

A little off-topic, but I have to ask: Do you run any oil or fuel additives in these engines? If so, which & how often?

Thank you.




Due to the amount of hands on experience dealing with small engines, I'd be willing to venture that Clevy is much too pragmatic and frugal to use unnecessary/expensive magic elixirs.

 

[Bror Jace]

HDEOs have a better add pack (anti-wear and fuel dilution), are more shear stable than PCMOs, and are cheaper than synthetics. Their ability to handle fuel dilution (high TBN) make them better for seldom-used equipment that is stored for many months at a time (generators, etc ...).

If your OPE engine does not have a spin-on oil filter, you'll want to change the oil every 25 - 50 hours to get rid of the wear bits and the particulates that get past the air filter and accumulate in the sump.

Also, carburetors run dirtier than fuel injection and fuel dilution of the oil can only be addressed with oil changes. If you're using synthetic, you're dumping more expensive oil.

But, any fresh oil is better than merely putting gas in the engine and running it until it grenades. What I said above applies to people who work their machines hard ... up to and including contractors. Most home owners get by just fine neglecting their equipment for years and years.

 

[NH73]

Originally Posted By: Dallas69
It's easy to check oil when you gas up your mower.
Keep it topped off with anything and it won't matter what you use.
Briggs says not to use anything over a 30 wt, I think.
Don't know about other brands.


Kawasaki do recommend oils in either the 30 wt. to 40 wt. I don't understand why Briggs says not to use anything over 30 wt.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
Originally Posted By: Turk
Originally Posted By: Clevy

We run roughly 18 machines a day. 3-4 generators on different sites and 12-14 5.5hp Honda powered air compressors. We are always windy here and the dust is always brutal. The air filters are sponge/foam and if I'm lucky they are oiled,so dirt intrusion is a very real condition for me.
And they basically run wide open all day long. 10 hours a day,5 sometimes 6 days a week. So every second Saturday im changing oil in everything. It's the first thing I do when I get to the site.


Wow Clevy!!

A little off-topic, but I have to ask: Do you run any oil or fuel additives in these engines? If so, which & how often?

Thank you.




Due to the amount of hands on experience dealing with small engines, I'd be willing to venture that Clevy is much too pragmatic and frugal to use unnecessary/expensive magic elixirs.


Mos2 every second oil change. 2 cans does every machine and tc-w3 in the fuel.
2 of my compressors are now over 10 years old. Easily have in excess oxn17000 hours and have had oil changes and sometimes plugs
My service guy hates me because my machines need nothing. Heck I've got over 10000 hours on chonda powered generators using mos2.
But only suckers buy additives.....

More like suckers turn their heads when something doesn't fit their ideals

 

[Lawn_Care]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
My service guy hates me because my machines need nothing. Heck I've got over 10000 hours on chonda powered generators using mos2.
But only suckers buy additives.....


If it works, don't fix it. I have been using mos2 for a couple years now (lubro-moly from NAPA). Hard to go wrong with that, and using mmo in the fuel (or TCW-3).

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Lawn_Care
Originally Posted By: Clevy
My service guy hates me because my machines need nothing. Heck I've got over 10000 hours on chonda powered generators using mos2.
But only suckers buy additives.....


If it works, don't fix it. I have been using mos2 for a couple years now (lubro-moly from NAPA). Hard to go wrong with that, and using mmo in the fuel (or TCW-3).


I'm not.

My suckers buy additives comment is a spit in the face to the guy who posted it a few days ago. Dickdude or something. I can't remember off hand.
I'm not in the habit of throwing money away. Before mos2 I never had a compressor engine(Honda 160cc 5.5hp) last more than 5 years before they started blowing smoke. Never. And those were still the made in Japan ones.
I now have those Thai and Malaysia made engines with 10 times the rates hours that blow no smoke,start first pull and run fantastic.
My service intervals haven't changed,only the addition of mos2.
It costs me an extra 10 bucks a month for mos2 in the machines. It saves me motor replacements every 5 years historically,multiply that by 14 compressors and the cost becomes significant.
And at -35c my machines don't need any warm up to start them. A couple pulls and they are running.
The other crews have theirs Compressors sitting beside their exhaust pipes boxed in to get them warm enough to start.
While they are losing money in production waiting my men are making money. How much in real dollars does that make me I can't really say for sure. I can say that 10 bucks a month is more like an investment that just keeps paying as time goes on.
So you're right. If it ain't broke.....

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: LX289
Just use a synthetic PCMO. OPE isn't that hard on oil. They don't run that high rpm like cars do. That is what I always use. I know OPE is air cooled and cars are liquid cooled but i don't think that they are that hard on oil IMO.


Right
Cause the air filtration is so stellar on OPE not to mention they run at full throttle or idle.
You're incorrect. OPE is the worst duty cycle of all. The oil gets contaminated very quickly because of poor intake air filtration and oil temps get very high. Couple that with very small sumps and you'll understand why my stuff gets changed every 100 hours.


Agreed...

All engines are different but on a older flathead B&S I've measured 308* head temp & 276* in the valve lifter opening on side of block, oil is exposed to that area... The sump was well within reason at around 210* but the temps in the valve area will take it's toll on the oil...

 

[grassman]

Kawasaki motors, now say to use 50w in southern Texas. Their having problems when the outside temp. is 100 plus degrees. Rotella T 15w40 seems to be working ok.

SCAG/CHEETAH/FX730V