Should new cars burn oil? C-R report

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: turtlevette

Low tension stuff is just used in drag racing, not on passenger cars, so I dont think that's it.




Once again the book smarts are short on details. You missed this one bad. Please stop "teaching"...


Best write down the date and time. It won't happen much.



07/02/15 04:54 PM

Thread saying dual exhaust isn't worth the performance gained, I call B.S.... One of the first mods virtually every automotive rag(magazine) has recommended since the '50s has been a free flowing dual exhaust...

Guess the factories were just wasting money using duals on the performance & larger engines???

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Low tension stuff is just used in drag racing, not on passenger cars, so I dont think that's it.


turtlevette, the last 20 years is sending you a wake-up call.

They have been using low tension rings for fuel economy for decades...you can study that stuff you know.


Sure, low tension rings are common place today, smooth bores are also used in some engines.

 

[rjundi]

I feel quite fortunate to have not a single vehicle in my stable except wifes(then girlfriend) 96 Civic that was an oil burner.

She never checked the oil however impressively then actually changed the oil/filter herself. Now she won't even touch a gas pump and does full serve! Hood opening ha!

How in 2015 they don't have oil low indicators across vehicles with every other tech innovation they jamb into a car.

 

[CourierDriver]

we live in a world of plastic pants engineering to save money...

 

[supton]

I agree, it is stupid that an oil level sensor is not standard. I guess an OEM would see it as an admission of guilt.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: turtlevette

Low tension stuff is just used in drag racing, not on passenger cars, so I dont think that's it.




Once again the book smarts are short on details. You missed this one bad. Please stop "teaching"...


Best write down the date and time. It won't happen much.



07/02/15 04:54 PM

Thread saying dual exhaust isn't worth the performance gained, I call B.S.... One of the first mods virtually every automotive rag(magazine) has recommended since the '50s has been a free flowing dual exhaust...

Guess the factories were just wasting money using duals on the performance & larger engines???


A free flowing exhaust doesn't do anything if the tuning isn't adjusted as well.
For example putting a less restrictive exhaust on a vehicle doesn't do anything except possibly lose mid-range torque unless you also modify the fuel trims.
It's like putting a cai on expecting more power. It doesn't do squat unless the engine tuning is also adjusted.

Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Low tension stuff is just used in drag racing, not on passenger cars, so I dont think that's it.


turtlevette, the last 20 years is sending you a wake-up call.

They have been using low tension rings for fuel economy for decades...you can study that stuff you know.


Sure, low tension rings are common place today, smooth bores are also used in some engines.


Iirc Ford Mustangs in the 80s already made the switch to low tension rings.
Ole turtle just proved he hasn't done anything with an engine in any way since the introduction of low tension rings.

I have to wonder if he writes down his lies so he can remember them all or if he just flies by the seat of his pants.
His credibility is non existent for a reason. Though I do laugh at his obvious confirmation of not knowing.
People can pretend to be anything on the Internet. Apparently some things can't be faked.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Completely false assertions about how forged pistons equal oil loss!


Completely? You don't think 2.5 vs 6 thousands is going to make any difference on oil consumption?

I guess I have to teach again. Search "oil consumption forged pistons".

The first time I rebuilt the vette, it consumed more oil than before the rebuild because of the forged pistons. Yea I probably could have had them run tighter side clearance, but then you run the risk of scuffed or seized pistons the first time you get the engine really hot.

My concern is all the public hoopla over oil consumption may be leading to an inferior product. A case where the consumer is driving things in the wrong direction.


You need a better machine shop. I have owned forged-piston engines that burn NO oil! My friend has one...it has very loud piston slap when cold...but uses less than a pint of oil in 5000 miles!

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Low tension stuff is just used in drag racing, not on passenger cars, so I dont think that's it.


turtlevette, the last 20 years is sending you a wake-up call.

They have been using low tension rings for fuel economy for decades...you can study that stuff you know.


Chrysler started using low-tension rings in the 2.2 engines in 1981. Ford used them in the 2.3 about the same time. I tore down a Chrysler 318 that had over 400,000 miles...there were still honing marks visible.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: turtlevette

Low tension stuff is just used in drag racing, not on passenger cars, so I dont think that's it.


Once again the book smarts are short on details. You missed this one bad. Please stop "teaching"...


Best write down the date and time. It won't happen much.


07/02/15 04:54 PM

Thread saying dual exhaust isn't worth the performance gained, I call B.S.... One of the first mods virtually every automotive rag(magazine) has recommended since the '50s has been a free flowing dual exhaust...

Guess the factories were just wasting money using duals on the performance & larger engines???


Half of the factory "dual" exhaust is bogus and just for appearance.

 

[Trav]

Higher silicon content forged pistons (12-14% vs 7% silicon) eliminates the expansion issue and cold start rattle.

 

[SoNic67]

To satisfy ecomorons, they are using low weight 20 oils in engines that are not supposed to. Any turbo for example...

My 200k miles Ford 5.0L V8 is not using almost any oil between changes - 7500K between them. But I have switched from the moronic 5W20 recommended for my year (2000-2001) - none of previous years where using that.

 

[edyvw]

If I did not have CR I would never know VW 2.0T burns oil. I will have to ask my car what is wrong with it, since CR says different.

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: supton
I agree, it is stupid that an oil level sensor is not standard. I guess an OEM would see it as an admission of guilt.


who would have to pay for a new engine if the oil level sensor failed to warn the driver? And who pays if nobody bothered to check the dipstick?

 

[GiveMeAVowel]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic

I agree, it is stupid that an oil level sensor is not standard. I guess an OEM would see it as an admission of guilt.

Quote:

who would have to pay for a new engine if the oil level sensor failed to warn the driver? And who pays if nobody bothered to check the dipstick?


I agree they should have a low oil sensor, the cost would be tiny per unit. Who would be responsible for a new engine if the sensor failed, during the warranty the manufacturer would be (and of course the car maker would bill the vendor that made the failed sensor) after the new car warranty is up the owner of the vehicle is responsible of course.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Half of the factory "dual" exhaust is bogus and just for appearance.

True. Especially on 4-cyl cars, my S2000 has dual exhaust tips comes from single Catalytic Converter. But it sure looks better than single exhaust tip.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: supton
I agree, it is stupid that an oil level sensor is not standard. I guess an OEM would see it as an admission of guilt.


who would have to pay for a new engine if the oil level sensor failed to warn the driver? And who pays if nobody bothered to check the dipstick?


That is the thing. For that to happen one must have both a sensor failure and an oil burner. The odds of both are low. Otherwise I agree, it is trivial to check ones oil periodically. Although stuff can happen where a motor literally overnight consumes oil (road debris causing cracked pan, cracked ring, whatever).

Besides, once the warranty is up, it does not matter how many sensors a car has--the manufacturer is off the hook,

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: Clevy

His credibility is non existent for a reason. Though I do laugh at his obvious confirmation of not knowing.
People can pretend to be anything on the Internet. Apparent oy some things can't be faked.


Still looking for some pictures of your car, some of your torn down engines and such. If you need help posting them, I can do it for you. When I rebuilt my SBC I just used standard cast iron rings.

You seem very fascinated with me. Glad I wasn't with you in prison.

 

[supton]

Do "high" tension ring keep that spring force "forever"? I spoke with my mechanic once about rings, forget why, and someone he knew was getting asked to rebuild a motor but reusing rings. Funny thing was that he had seen cast rings, well used, that could be unfurled by hand. Seemed nonsensical to us, but the customer is always right, so...

So I am curious if rings keep that spring tension over their lifetime.

 

[TXCarGeek]

I have an '08 550i...if you're burning oil with the N62 engine, it is time for new valve stem seals which is a common failure point on these engines if they have over 100,000 miles.

As for the N63, twin turbo V8...that thing has other problems aside from burning oil. I do know that the valve stem seals were the same between the two engines up until recently when BMW updated the seal to handle the higher heat generated by the twin turbo'ed mill. If the seals were going on the NA N62, imagine what the heat generated by two turbos in the engines Valley would do to those seals.

 

[punisher]

Originally Posted By: supton


So I am curious if rings keep that spring tension over their lifetime.


Assuming you are thinking about the second ring (cast ductile)in a 3 ring piston, then yes. I have yet to run across a second ring (unbroken) that has a noticeable reduction in tension. That goes out the window if there was a case of a severe overheat (by which some miracle your piston survived). Stainless steel rings, don't know. They are miserable to grind the gaps on though.

IMHO oil burning in modern engines is an engineering problem, not a material problem. Valve seals and guides will always leak/meter oil, its their design. Rings are going really thin, really low tension to cut down friction as much as possible. New types of rings, reverse twist, Napiers, etc are being tried. Next big deal will be some sort of crankcase evacuation system to maintain a negative pressure. Works for racers.