Piston driven AR's

[punisher]

Originally Posted By: billt460
But it still lives on, being continually perpetuated by the anti piston AR fanatics.


There are actually "anti piston AR fanatics" out there? Do they have some sort of organization, or trade group? Are they dangerous like ISIS/ISIL? Do we need to be concerned?

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: billt460


Purchasing a piston driven AR-15 rifle is no different that buying any other piece of machinery. It is up to the buyer to do their own research. Carrier tilt has been resolved on most all piston driven AR's being manufactured today. But it still lives on, being continually perpetuated by the anti piston AR fanatics. At $7.00 a box for .223 / 5.56 MM, how many shooters are going to shoot enough to realistically produce the problem to begin with? Most likely not 2% if that. And that is only assuming you have an AR that developes the problem to begin with.
Explain the benefits of pistons for all those casual shooters? Lets assume most of them also aren't rocking suppressors and SBRs.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Explain the benefits of pistons for all those casual shooters? Lets assume most of them also aren't rocking suppressors and SBRs.


I'm not "rocking suppressors or SBR's". I just like a gun that's easier to clean. Piston driven AR-15's are. It's just that simple. I like clean guns. But I don't like to clean them. The older I get, the more I like shooting my piston AR's over my DI weapons because of that reason. Much less work to establish the same level of clean.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: punisher
There are actually "anti piston AR fanatics" out there? Do they have some sort of organization, or trade group?


No. The bulk of them are much like Glock haters. "The grip angle is "wrong" because I can't shoot it"! They come up with foolishness as to why they think DI guns are supposedly "better". "If the AR was meant to have a piston, then Stoner would have designed it with one"! That type of silly nonsense.

How about people like them because they're easy to keep clean, period. Good enough reason for me to buy 2 of them, and most likely will purchase a third in time.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: punisher
Originally Posted By: billt460
But it still lives on, being continually perpetuated by the anti piston AR fanatics.


There are actually "anti piston AR fanatics" out there? Do they have some sort of organization, or trade group? Are they dangerous like ISIS/ISIL? Do we need to be concerned?


Yes. Go to M4carbine.net and ask about piston AR's and you'll be ran out of there so fast your head will spin. They are true direct impingement fanatics over there.

The general consensus there is "DI has standard parts, its ultra reliable as is, it has standard parts, no need to look for non standard parts, and what the heck are you cleaning your gun so fanatically for? Just add more oil you fool. You haven't added enough oil. You didn't put 1200 rounds through your AR this weekend? Loser."

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: punisher
Originally Posted By: billt460
But it still lives on, being continually perpetuated by the anti piston AR fanatics.


There are actually "anti piston AR fanatics" out there? Do they have some sort of organization, or trade group? Are they dangerous like ISIS/ISIL? Do we need to be concerned?


Yes. Go to M4carbine.net and ask about piston AR's and you'll be ran out of there so fast your head will spin. They are true direct impingement fanatics over there.

The general consensus there is "DI has standard parts, its ultra reliable as is, it has standard parts, no need to look for non standard parts, and what the heck are you cleaning your gun so fanatically for? Just add more oil you fool. You haven't added enough oil. You didn't put 1200 rounds through your AR this weekend? Loser."


Isn't that the truth! If you contradict anyone at that place you'll be banned in short order. They even banned Pat Rogers over there. That's the equivalent of the Vatican banning the Pope.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: hatt
Explain the benefits of pistons for all those casual shooters? Lets assume most of them also aren't rocking suppressors and SBRs.


I'm not "rocking suppressors or SBR's". I just like a gun that's easier to clean. Piston driven AR-15's are. It's just that simple. I like clean guns. But I don't like to clean them. The older I get, the more I like shooting my piston AR's over my DI weapons because of that reason. Much less work to establish the same level of clean.
How are they easier to clean? Don't you have to clean the piston system? All you're doing is trading cleaning one area for another. It takes 5 minutes with a can of brake cleaner to clean a DI AR. Probably takes longer with a piston AR since you have to break down additional components.

 

[Robenstein]

Stoner did mean to make an AR with a piston....the AR18. lol

Personally if I must have a piston driven 5.56 rifle I will just hunt up a Galil or Arsenal AK.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: hatt
How are they easier to clean?...........


Have you ever owned one, or put a large number of rounds through one?

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: hatt
How are they easier to clean?...........


Have you ever owned one, or put a large number of rounds through one?
No that's why I'm asking you. If you're going to be touting the advantages you should be able to explain them. So far the only advantage you can come up with is much easier to clean. That needs explaining since DI ARs aren't hard to clean.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: hatt
How are they easier to clean?...........


Have you ever owned one, or put a large number of rounds through one?
No that's why I'm asking you. If you're going to be touting the advantages you should be able to explain them. So far the only advantage you can come up with is much easier to clean. That needs explaining since DI ARs aren't hard to clean.


Compared to a piston AR they are. Any DI AR-15 rifle, (which I own 10 of by the way), blow garbage all over the BCG. Yeah, if you soak them with oil every few mag full's a lot of it will blow out. But then you've got a dirty, oily mess to clean up when you get home.

You have none of that with a piston operated AR. The bolt and bolt carrier stays clean. You give it a few drops of oil and it stays where it's put. On the components, not blown out the ejection port with every shot fired, and replaced with dirt. The only people who say a DI operated AR isn't hard to clean, are people who have never experienced shooting a piston AR for any length of time.

As I said, I own 10 direct impingement operated AR-15 rifles, and 2 piston LWRC guns. The latter get far more use because of the ease of cleaning. Some guys like to take apart guns and scrape carbon, and wash off dirty oily parts. All of which you get with any DI AR-15 that's seen any large amount of ammunition run through it. I don't. A quick wipe, and a couple drops of oil, and in the safe it goes.

 

[hatt]

How do you clean the piston system?

 

[billt460]

There really isn't anything to clean. All the gas and dirt is vented out of the rifle on every shot. Not blown back into the action, and all over everything. The LWRC has a self cleaning system, as do many others like LMT and H&K. All of gas exits at the front of the rifle. Nothing gets into the action. This slo-mo video shows what happens on every shot. About all you get after a couple of thousand rounds is a bit of dry soot on the inside of the forend tube. All the gas is disposed of in a clean, efficient manner. Not all over the rifles operating parts. They run substantially cooler as a result.

These things are here to stay, regardless of what anyone says. All the AR's that went on the Bin Laden raid were H&K 416's. There is a reason for that. These guys could have taken any weapon on planet Earth if they so desired. They chose a piston operated AR platform. And most of these guys shoot more in a month, then the average recreational shooter does in a decade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KYScJo4_s0

 

[hatt]

I suspect you're downplaying the cleaning of the piston system. You're certainly overblowing the cleaning of a DI gun. The binladen raid has nothing to do with how most people run guns over here. With a suppressed 11ish inch gun the piston may gain you something. There are also a lot of HSLD folks with DI guns. 6 of one half dozen of the other. No one has been able to come up with a solid case of what they gain the guy with 16+ barrels and shoot a few hundred rounds a month except higher cost and proprietary parts.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: hatt
I suspect you're downplaying the cleaning of the piston system. You're certainly overblowing the cleaning of a DI gun.


I own both. I shoot both. I clean both. You don't. I'm not "downplaying" or "overblowing" anything. I'm simply telling you what you don't want to hear. Buy and shoot what you want. If you're sold on a DI AR, then good for you. Just don't try to tell me what you've "experienced" on the operation of piston operated AR's, by reading magazine articles to form your opinion. After you've purchased a couple of piston operated AR-15's, and run them for 10,000 rounds or so like I have. Then I'll be more than happy to listen to you tell me what is and what isn't concerning their operation based on your experience. Rather than simply regurgitating what chatter you've heard on the Internet.

Right now you're trying to argue a point, that by your own admission you've never experienced. The Internet is full of people like that, and I have no desire to waste my time or yours trying to convince you one way or the other.

 

[bsmithwins]

If you aren't repelled by cleaning a DI AR, and you don't have a suppressor, it seems a piston conversion wouldn't have much advantage compared to the disadvantage of weight and extra parts.

BSW

 

[hatt]

The internet is also full of folks trying to justify their overpriced purchases. I don't need to own a piston AR to know cleaning a DI gun is quick and easy so searching out a higher priced and more complex version of the gun that's possibly slightly easier to clean would be foolish. I'm happy about you helping the economy.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: hatt
I don't need to own a piston AR........................


Your inexperience concerning the issue is only overshadowed by your complete ignorance in the matter. Why don't you become a flight instructor? Something else you can give advice about, while knowing nothing.

 

[hatt]

Buyer's remorse?

 

[kmrcstintn]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: kmrcstintn


direct gas impingment systems require more frequent cleanings than piston systems, but cost less and are the mainstream of the AR-15 markets; as far as cleaning goes...if you have time to shoot it then make time to clean it afterward!

I hit mine with brake cleaner every couple years whether they need it or not. Takes like 5 minutes.


guess I gotta be more specific...due to the amount of crud thrown into the upper receiver with a direct gas impingment system the friggin bolt carrier and its contents need much more frequent cleaning!