Mobil 1 0w20 AFE vs EP

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The AFE can probably do 10k. If you still have the oil in there, do a UOA on it. I bet you'll see that it handled the extra 5k miles just fine.
 
Originally Posted By: JungleJim
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
5,000 miles is too frequent. You can easily go 5,000 miles on conventional. If you're not going closer to 10,000 miles on synthetic you're just wasting your money. To each his own.
I hear what you're saying. But Toyota calls for 5,000 mi changes, and 0w20 is only available in synthetic.

Thank you to everyone who has responded!


If you are under warranty or Toyota extended warranty you must change @ 5K miles or six months whichever occurs first. If you are not then stick with the M1 but change it @ 10K or one year.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek

if toyota calls for 5,000 mile OCI, then 5w20 is specified.
if 0w20 is specified, then toyota calls for 10,000 mile OCI.


My previous Tacoma (4 Cyl) specified 0w20, and 5k OCIs. The manual was quite clear. Of course, after the warranty was up, I didn't follow the OCI.
 
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
FWIW, Mobil's own data show 150 PPM less Zinc and Phos in all AFEs than standard M1 or EP. That's about 16-19% less of important additives to achieve very minor improvements in cold starting. I'd stick with EP or just use standard 5W-20.

Now that's useful information, thanks.
Tried 5w20 the first 1.5 yrs...had knocking on startup in high & low temperatures. Switched to 0w20 and all startup noise went away.

Just purchased some EP. It was exactly $2 more than AFE at WallyWorld. For $2, I think I will just continue to use it, unless I hear a good reason not to.
 
It is surmised that the AFE oils uses different AW chemistry than the other products, hence the reduction in Zinc/Phos. It doesn't need the same levels to provide the same protection.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
It is surmised that the AFE oils uses different AW chemistry than the other products, hence the reduction in Zinc/Phos. It doesn't need the same levels to provide the same protection.


It doesn't need the same protection as it's optimized for MPG (as the name implies). Higher Zn levels = more friction in boundary lubrication.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
It is surmised that the AFE oils uses different AW chemistry than the other products, hence the reduction in Zinc/Phos. It doesn't need the same levels to provide the same protection.


It doesn't need the same protection as it's optimized for MPG (as the name implies). Higher Zn levels = more friction in boundary lubrication.


So does either provide better reduction of friction?
(I'm a science teacher and trying to follow all of the pros and cons of each, along with the reasons.)

Why does EP cost more? Is it overall better in any way over AFE? Or are there just different pros and cons to each?
OR....does it really not matter in the least?
 
Mobil 1 guarantees the AFE line to go 10K or 1 year, whichever comes first. The extended performance line is guaranteed to go 15K or 1 year, whichever comes first. I say just stick to regular AFE unless you plan on going over 10K. If your a short tripper, I say change at 5K. Others WILL disagree.
 
Mobil EP has twice the amount of PAO than AFE (50% - 60% versus 30%) and is still a good value for only $2.00 more in a 5-quart jug at Walmart.

Personally I run the 0W-20 EP in a blend with Mobil 0W-40, with TGMO replacing the EP during the winter months for lighter start-up purposes. Naturally, the amount of 0W-40 is dependent on the viscosity requirements of each application.
 
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Mobil EP has twice the amount of PAO than AFE (50% - 60% versus 30%) and is still a good value for only $2.00 more in a 5-quart jug at Walmart.

Personally I run the 0W-20 EP in a blend with Mobil 0W-40, with TGMO replacing the EP during the winter months for lighter start-up purposes. Naturally, the amount of 0W-40 is dependent on the viscosity requirements of each application.


IIRC, EP has a lower MRV than TGMO, so it would be the better winter choice
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Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
It is surmised that the AFE oils uses different AW chemistry than the other products, hence the reduction in Zinc/Phos. It doesn't need the same levels to provide the same protection.


It doesn't need the same protection as it's optimized for MPG (as the name implies). Higher Zn levels = more friction in boundary lubrication.


The MSDS for the AFE product does show that esters have been added, creating plenty of polar, low-temperature anti-wear, low-friction effects. Remember zddp doesn't fully get going until higher temperatures are reached. Stating that zddp increases friction is mostly true (Reference Is Here, Page 24).
Bottom Line: EP, with more stable PAO, is a longer-drain oil, and AFE probably is slightly better on friction. Most lower-friction comes from lower-viscosity, so the difference wouldn't be great at all. Also, with all the paraffinic components in AFE, it might make more deposits; again, not a long-drain oil.
 
EP has the advantage below -10 to -15*F +/- over TGMO. My temps generally don't go below zero, so TGMO is still around 20% lighter at start-up.
 
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
EP has the advantage below -10 to -15*F +/- than TGMO. My temps generally don't go below zero, so TGMO is still around 20% lighter at start-up.


We can usually work MRV/CCS backwords to around -15C (5F) so I'd wager that the EP may still be lighter at those temps. Closer to 0 (and above), the TGMO will be lighter.

That said, with the recent reformulation of M1 0w-40 to contain ~50%+ PAO and the fact we know EP is majority PAO, I'd argue that those two are far more appropriate to mix (if that's your gig) than with TGMO, which is entirely group III.
 
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Mobil 1 guarantees the AFE line to go 10K or 1 year, whichever comes first.
I have not seen that stated anywhere. I must have missed it.
 
Originally Posted By: JungleJim
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
FWIW, Mobil's own data show 150 PPM less Zinc and Phos in all AFEs than standard M1 or EP. That's about 16-19% less of important additives to achieve very minor improvements in cold starting. I'd stick with EP or just use standard 5W-20.

Now that's useful information, thanks.
Tried 5w20 the first 1.5 yrs...had knocking on startup in high & low temperatures. Switched to 0w20 and all startup noise went away.

Just purchased some EP. It was exactly $2 more than AFE at WallyWorld. For $2, I think I will just continue to use it, unless I hear a good reason not to.


My experience with 5w20 in my wife's 2010 RAV4 is similar. More engine noise with 5w20. I don't know that I would call it "knocking" but definitely more noise. I only ran 5w20 because I had it. From now on it will get a steady diet of 0w20 because the engine seems to like it better, at least from my seat of the pants eardrum reading. Currently running 0w20EP because Walmart was sold out of AFE. I will pull a sample at 5K and keep going. I'd like to get a year out of it.
 
Well, now that it is summer, I'm running a 50/50 mix of Mobil 1, AFE, 0w20 and Mobil 1, 15w50. My fuel economy has really been outstanding with this blended mix, with no engine noise and smooth running. The Mobil 1, 15w50 is high in ZDDP and the base stock of this oil quite a bit of PAO, from what I have read. IMO....this blend of Mobil 1 oils, thus far, has been my best summer mix yet.

3 Quarts of AFE 0w20 with 3 quarts of 15w50, along with an oversized Mobil 1, spin on filter, has worked out fine for the summer heat. The blended mix may even work fine for winter runs. But only time will tell me that for sure. Maybe 4 quarts 0w20, EP with 2 quarts of 15w50 might run better in the dead cold of winter.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I like the mix of M1 0W20 EP with 0W40 better, both are long drain oil with good percentage PAO.

+1

This is what I run in all my vehicles or at least a combination of 0W-20 EP and 0W-40.
 
In my Corolla I have run M1 0w20 EP for the past two OCI's, before that mostly AFE. No UOA's, the engine runs smooth and seems happy with either one. Last year I did one Summer OCI on PU 5w-20.

Fuel economy tracks outside temp and Winter gas not oil choice. Last fillup I just got 36.4MPG with my 1.8L engine and EP, that's as good as it gets for this vehicle, speaking from tracking every fillup over 90K+ miles. If there is a fuel economy advantage of AFE over EP, I'm not seeing it.
 
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