HOA orders resident to take down US Flag

[The_Eric]

It may be on common ground, but if the info in the linked article is correct, flags are not regulated. The lawyers stated that if it were inside her porch, she could decorate as she pleased, which to me means that their list of things they don't want to see applies to the outside or common ground, and that neglects to mention the American flag.

Then there is the "Freedom to Display The American Flag Act".

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
As someone who lives in a condo:

1. She is flying the flag on common property, not her own, so she has no right to do what she's doing.

2. What kind of HOA would actually enforce this? We have people who we allow to hang all sorts of seasonally decorative things from their windows, doors and porches? One guy goes all out for Halloween, and most of us love it; the rest wouldn't say boo.

3. What are the chances she's flying the flag correctly, showing the proper respect? My guess is low.


If she was being told to take down the flag, I highly doubt it's because she's displaying the flag incorrectly...if that were the case they'd just tell her to display it properly...telling her to take it down sounds more like either someone who lives in the complex is offended by the flag, or someone running the HOA is offended by it...if that's the case, the lady needs to stand her ground...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: whip
The rules were in place before she moved in, and she agreed to them. Now, she thinks she's special and above the rules. Why should she be treated differently than the others? Has she achieved some special distinction that makes her above the rules? I see this behavior almost daily.


If the rules state that an American flag can't be flown, then the rules are unreasonable and they need to be changed...

 

[NHHEMI]

This is why HOA's are so horrible and why I would never join one. Giving others the right to tell you what you can and can not do with your property is just foolish.

Nice lady with 2 boys serving our country being hassled over flying the flag. What an absolute travesty.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
Originally Posted By: Bobcatguy
Hopefully she will be reasonable and take it down after July 4th. Its on common property and she has to abide by the rules on common property.


It's not on common property, it's on her porch.


I agree. If she actually owns the condo vs. renting/leasing the flag is on her property. Just because it can be seen by others doesn't make it common property.

 

[ddrumman2004]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
This is why HOA's are so horrible and why I would never join one. Giving others the right to tell you what you can and can not do with your property is just foolish.

Nice lady with 2 boys serving our country being hassled over flying the flag. What an absolute travesty.


My stepdaughter and her hubby are having a home built in a subdivision that has an HOA. They still don't see how the HOA is controlling them before the house is even finished. How the front elevation of the house must not match any other, what mailbox to buy.....and.....no flag flying.....geez...

 

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: whip
The rules were in place before she moved in, and she agreed to them. Now, she thinks she's special and above the rules. Why should she be treated differently than the others? Has she achieved some special distinction that makes her above the rules? I see this behavior almost daily.


If the rules state that an American flag can't be flown, then the rules are unreasonable and they need to be changed...


Unfortunately many could care less what it took to keep that flag flying.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: ddrumman2004
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
This is why HOA's are so horrible and why I would never join one. Giving others the right to tell you what you can and can not do with your property is just foolish.

Nice lady with 2 boys serving our country being hassled over flying the flag. What an absolute travesty.


My stepdaughter and her hubby are having a home built in a subdivision that has an HOA. They still don't see how the HOA is controlling them before the house is even finished. How the front elevation of the house must not match any other, what mailbox to buy.....and.....no flag flying.....geez...


HOA = Hitler Operated Association...

 

[KD0AXS]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
Originally Posted By: Bobcatguy
Hopefully she will be reasonable and take it down after July 4th. Its on common property and she has to abide by the rules on common property.


It's not on common property, it's on her porch.


I agree. If she actually owns the condo vs. renting/leasing the flag is on her property. Just because it can be seen by others doesn't make it common property.


Yep, the flag is on the outside of her porch, which is part of the condo that she owns and has exclusive use of. Therefore her right to display the flag is protected by law.

Now if she had gone and put up a flagpole in the yard, which she does not own, it would be a different story.

 

[Vuflanovsky]

It's likely pretty simple...if you entered into abiding by the CC&Rs and by-laws of the complex/HOA by purchasing there then you can expect that if outside the inner porch is denoted as common area, then someone might be asked to take down a flag or anything else. There are an awful lot of idiot effs out there who don't understand, don't read, have very poor reading comprehension, and can't grasp the concept of the greater good as it relates to living in a designated space. Sure, you can make argument that this is pretty draconian but by the same token I've lived with people who just don't give a s**t about anyone else but themselves. For all I know, there may be a history there. Fake outrage fills space for the media outlets so I guess it's what we deserve.

 

[glock19]

Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
Originally Posted By: Bobcatguy
Hopefully she will be reasonable and take it down after July 4th. Its on common property and she has to abide by the rules on common property.


It's not on common property, it's on her porch.


I agree. If she actually owns the condo vs. renting/leasing the flag is on her property. Just because it can be seen by others doesn't make it common property.


Yep, the flag is on the outside of her porch, which is part of the condo that she owns and has exclusive use of. Therefore her right to display the flag is protected by law.

Now if she had gone and put up a flagpole in the yard, which she does not own, it would be a different story.


I don't think so. Usually, when you buy a condo you're buying the interior space. All exterior walls are property of/maintained by the condo association. For example, if the siding on the outside of her condo needed replaced, the association would foot that bill not her. I'm all for her flying the flag, but technically it's not her property and I don't think she'll win this battle.

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
Originally Posted By: Bobcatguy
Hopefully she will be reasonable and take it down after July 4th. Its on common property and she has to abide by the rules on common property.


It's not on common property, it's on her porch.


I agree. If she actually owns the condo vs. renting/leasing the flag is on her property. Just because it can be seen by others doesn't make it common property.


Yep, the flag is on the outside of her porch, which is part of the condo that she owns and has exclusive use of. Therefore her right to display the flag is protected by law.

Now if she had gone and put up a flagpole in the yard, which she does not own, it would be a different story.
The flag is OUTSIDE of her porch, you're correct. She has no right to put something that isn't in her property.

That would be like me sticking a 30 foot flag pole in my yard at a 45 degree angle and it cemented in on my property right next to the sidewalk with it blocking the sidewalk and going over the street. It's mounted on my property but the flag pole isn't on it.

 

[grampi]

I don't see how any HOA can make a rule against flying an American flag...other flags, yes, but the American flag? Seems to me that this is in violation of some federal law that states every American has a right to fly the American flag...people can't just make up laws or rules that violate federal laws...

 

[spasm3]

Get an older car and paint it red white and blue, including stars.
or better yet an 80's pickup painted that way.

 

[Win]

The old saying is fight horse poop with bigger horse poop.

Instead of arguing over a silly and strained interpretation of a single rule, attack the validity of the whole lot of them and make them wonder whether they'll have any rules left at all when you're done with them.

That's how you deal with these type of people. Yes, it takes resources to do this.

 

[MrHorspwer]

Originally Posted By: grampi
I don't see how any HOA can make a rule against flying an American flag...other flags, yes, but the American flag? Seems to me that this is in violation of some federal law that states every American has a right to fly the American flag...people can't just make up laws or rules that violate federal laws...


Because it's not a HOA, it is a condo association.

Condo associations vary in what they own. Some own structures, some own property, and some only own minimal common areas. Ownership is key. This is all legal and legit. Stuff you agree to when the occupant signs on the dotted line.

If it is true that the occupant does not own the structure that the flag is mounted on, it is up to the owner to decide whether to let it stay or take it down.

Yes, there are federal regulations that say you can't require the removal of the flag. It was even mentioned in the article... however, you can't put *your* flag up on somebody else property.

This isn't a flag issue, it is an ownership issue.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
Originally Posted By: Bobcatguy
Hopefully she will be reasonable and take it down after July 4th. Its on common property and she has to abide by the rules on common property.


It's not on common property, it's on her porch.


I agree. If she actually owns the condo vs. renting/leasing the flag is on her property. Just because it can be seen by others doesn't make it common property.


Yep, the flag is on the outside of her porch, which is part of the condo that she owns and has exclusive use of. Therefore her right to display the flag is protected by law.

Now if she had gone and put up a flagpole in the yard, which she does not own, it would be a different story.


If it's a condo then she doesn't actually own the porch.

Every condo I've ever built only sells the interior space,so the purchaser only owns what inside,not outside.
For example if the condo is wood clad the condo association pays for re-paint and maintenance. The owner has no say on colours nor do they pay the contractor who does the painting.
Yes the owner may use the porch but they don't own it.
In winter the condo associations pay the maintenance staff to remove snow right up to the front door,not because they are being nice,but because they are libel for it.
So this condo owner by installing a flag has damaged the condo associations property,and will incur whatever it costs to fix the damage.

 

[glock19]

Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Yes, there are federal regulations that say you can't require the removal of the flag. It was even mentioned in the article... however, you can't put *your* flag up on somebody else property.

This isn't a flag issue, it is an ownership issue.


BINGO!!!

 

[KD0AXS]

Originally Posted By: Clevy


If it's a condo then she doesn't actually own the porch.

Every condo I've ever built only sells the interior space,so the purchaser only owns what inside,not outside.
For example if the condo is wood clad the condo association pays for re-paint and maintenance. The owner has no say on colours nor do they pay the contractor who does the painting.
Yes the owner may use the porch but they don't own it.
In winter the condo associations pay the maintenance staff to remove snow right up to the front door,not because they are being nice,but because they are libel for it.
So this condo owner by installing a flag has damaged the condo associations property,and will incur whatever it costs to fix the damage.


Actually, ownership of the porch is irrelevant.

Originally Posted By: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2005
A condominium association, cooperative association or residential real estate management association (i.e. a homeowner association) may not adopt or enforce any policy, or enter into any agreement, that would restrict or prevent a member of the association from displaying the flag of the United States on residential property within the association with respect to which such member has a separate ownership interest or a right to exclusive possession or use.


So even though she may not actually own the porch, it is still part of the area that she has exclusive use of. Therefore her right to display the Flag should be protected.

 

[MNgopher]

To be blunt, the last condo type unit I owned in Minnesota, I didn't own an exclusive right to anything but the interior space of the unit. The exterior was under the control of the HOA.

If she put something not allowed by the HOA on the HOA's property or under their control, she is in the wrong and that's the end of the story.

No more complex than someone not understanding what they actually own or bought.