E15 coming soon?

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Originally Posted By: Olas
More boost and more timing can never be a bad thing, can it?

Only if the octane is higher. Rhetorical question -- what is the octane of E15?
 
Thinking about this logically, 5% more ethanol isn't much of a difference from E-10. I may be totally off, but I'm thinking it won't be as bad a a lot of people say, since we already have everything E-10 here in VA anyways. All my cars have plastic tanks, and the only thing I would worry about is for equipment like boats, m/c and mowers that can set for long periods of time (phase separation).
 
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Originally Posted By: Silverado12
I thought everything (cars & trucks) made after 2001 could run E-15.

This year was pulled out of the air by the EPA. There is nothing with automotive technology that changed across the board for all manufacturers after 2001 that magically gives E15 a blessing.
 
The latest EPA proposal is LOWERING the required renewable (Ethanol) content. E10 is going to be less dominant. Unless California's moonbeam does something unilateral, not only will we be not seeing much E15, but less E10 as well.
 
Boaters have a strong aversion to using E-Anything in their tanks. In some states (NY for one) E-10 is the only fuel available so boaters have to suck it up in those states.
 
Originally Posted By: HangFire
The latest EPA proposal is LOWERING the required renewable (Ethanol) content. E10 is going to be less dominant. Unless California's moonbeam does something unilateral, not only will we be not seeing much E15, but less E10 as well.

California is known for doing many things alone, so far no E15 is in the talk here but E10 is here to stay and no E0 is allowed except racing fuel.
 
Been using E15 since around the 1st of March in my 2015 Silverado 2500HD 6.0L. Been the best value in my area. 30 cents lower than E0 and 70+ cents less than premium E0. I have a choice of E0 (regular and premium), E10, E15, E20, E30, and E85. My 2500 has been getting 17-18 mpg on road trips, and an overall lifetime average of 14.5 mpg on E15, which for a 7200 lb 4x4 pickup with snow plow prep suspension and a gas motor, that isn't half bad. And that motor doesn't have the AFM cylinder shutdown stuff nor the direct injection of the newer Ecotec3 motors either. Just 8 cylinders all working like a good V8 should.

Regarding those that do not have a choice, that is your state government that sets that. While the EPA and RFS thing mandate a use of ethanol in motor fuel, it does not say that you cannot also have a choice to use it. That is why we have all these choices. Iowa, even though it is corn and ethanol central, also realizes that liberty is still part of the way things are, so they allow everyone to choose what they want to use. Most opt for the E10, mostly because the price is lower than E0 by about 20 cents a gallon. I can get E0 in any town around me, any day of the year.

Everyone should have the choice to put in their tank what they want. But again, your state has made the decision for you. Not the EPA or some conspiracy of the corn lobby. If it were the corn lobby, we in Iowa wouldn't have E0 either. The agriculture sector is the big money in Iowa and they run the state house.
 
Corn consumes from 500–2,000 litres (110–440 imp gal; 130–530 US gal) of water per liter of ethanol..
And every time the subject comes up, the gentleman from the champion state expresses his surprise of the abundant choices he has and why some of the rst of us are not as elated. It's like Obamacare: the biggest champions stay on their plans and keep their doctors, have exemptions and are overall enjoying more choices.
 
Originally Posted By: Y_K
Corn consumes from 500–2,000 litres (110–440 imp gal; 130–530 US gal) of water per liter of ethanol..
And every time the subject comes up, the gentleman from the champion state expresses his surprise of the abundant choices he has and why some of the rst of us are not as elated. It's like Obamacare: the biggest champions stay on their plans and keep their doctors, have exemptions and are overall enjoying more choices.


Doesn't it rain enough for the corn to get its water? I don't see where water is scarce enough to worry about in most areas. It's a bigger concern to be dependent on foreign oil. As far as Affordable Healthcare Act, most people who are on it were priced out of the market before, and the few people I know who are on it are glad to have it. Maybe you have a better suggestion than to just take it away from them.
 
I read a National Geo article years ago that said the natural aquifiers in the midwest were getting pumped dry trying to grow corn. Not sure what the situation is today.

That is a lot of water per gallon of ethanol!
 
Originally Posted By: Y_K
Corn consumes from 500–2,000 litres (110–440 imp gal; 130–530 US gal) of water per liter of ethanol..
And every time the subject comes up, the gentleman from the champion state expresses his surprise of the abundant choices he has and why some of the rst of us are not as elated. It's like Obamacare: the biggest champions stay on their plans and keep their doctors, have exemptions and are overall enjoying more choices.


I never have expressed any thought that anyone should be elated. I know when I have struck gold when folks use ad hominem attacks.

Corn is almost the same price today as in 1995. And when one factors that the dollar has lost over 30% of its value in that time, corn is actually cheaper today in 1995 dollars. Sure, I have no problem putting corn in my fuel tank. My paranoia gland is not enlarged like some folks. I never have implied that everyone should use it, but I have stated it should be everyone's choice. But it is the state they live in that has decided for them, not the Feds or the corn lobby. That is pure fact. Tough to deal with, but it is what it is.
 
Originally Posted By: supton
I read a National Geo article years ago that said the natural aquifiers in the midwest were getting pumped dry trying to grow corn. Not sure what the situation is today.

That is a lot of water per gallon of ethanol!


Gonna be hard pressed to tell that to the folks who live in the Midwest! Truth is, 15% of farm ground in the U.S. is irrigated. That is mostly produce farm ground like the veggies you buy at the store that come from Imperial Valley and the San Joachin Valley type regions. Sure, some midwest farm ground gets some irrigation, but it doesn't hardly make a blip on the radar. Irrigation is a little more common west of the Missouri River. Most corn growing areas in the Midwest use no irrigation at all.

And water to make ethanol, sure. But it also takes water to make petroleum fuels! Didn't know that, eh? Guess what, ethanol production only uses less than a quarter more volume of water to produce a gallon of ethanol than the refineries use to produce a gallon of gasoline. That's right, it takes 2-2.5 gallons of water to produce one gallon of gasoline and it takes just under 3 gallons of water to produce one gallon of ethanol. I know, facts can be tough to handle. But to also make the point, most of the water used for each purpose is recycled, so that the actual volume of water used is considerably less than the amounts shown for both gas and ethanol would imply from the per gallon rate.

And 1" of rain on one acre of ground is equivalent to 27154 gallons of water per the U.S. Geological Service. And given that Iowa, for one, gets over 35" of rain a year, I don' think anything is in jeopardy because a lot of corn is grown there. Kinda hard to fathom that corn and ethanol are depleting water when Iowa, for one, gets on average almost 1 million gallons of water per acre per year from Ma nature. The other mega corn producing states in the region, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Minnesota (a little less rain though), etc are in the same rain belt as Iowa.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
That's right, it takes 2-2.5 gallons of water to produce one gallon of gasoline and it takes just under 3 gallons of water to produce one gallon of ethanol. I know, facts can be tough to handle.


OK, that's got my B$ gland tingling.

Got a link to that fact ?
 
Ahhhh...
The water per gallon of ethanol is the couple of gallons per gallon at the distillation plant, not the

"Approximately 88% of U.S. corn and
U.S. corn ethanol are produced in USDA production Regions 5 and 7, where 14–336 gallons of irrigation water are consumed per gallon of ethanol produced.4 Corn irrigation is at the lower end
in Regions 5 and 6."

Was shocked at the gallon/gallon of salty water injected into wells to stimulate production, but not shocked to see the dirty end of ethanol getting ignored at the distillery gate.

Nice work TT...
 
I've never personally seen e-15 at the pump. That said, our odyssey is made for it and it even states that it is allowed on the fuel cap.

If the engines can be tuned and operated with higher power due to the content, then great! Looking at that new gm ecotec 5 4.3L v6, it seems that some great gains can be had.

It strikes me also that if we can make coke machines that dose umpteen sodas and fruit flavor dopants, that we could make gas pumps that allow a user to dial in their mix. The default would be oxygenated gasoline per the law, but then the alcohol addition might be based upon price or what their engine can take. It's on the consumer, who is inherently stupid, to make a decision, and if they screw up, it's personal responsibility... And that's why it defaults to something, even if it is slightly higher price, that is universally ok.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Ahhhh...
The water per gallon of ethanol is the couple of gallons per gallon at the distillation plant, not the

"Approximately 88% of U.S. corn and
U.S. corn ethanol are produced in USDA production Regions 5 and 7, where 14–336 gallons of irrigation water are consumed per gallon of ethanol produced.4 Corn irrigation is at the lower end
in Regions 5 and 6."

Was shocked at the gallon/gallon of salty water injected into wells to stimulate production, but not shocked to see the dirty end of ethanol getting ignored at the distillery gate.

Nice work TT...


Don't forget that reformation used in refineries to take either cat cracker off gas or natural gas and make hydrogen, also consume water.

Reformation by partial oxidation makes optimally a mix of H2 and CO. You don't want CO2 because you can water-gas shift CO with H2O to make CO2 and more H2. That is then used for hydrocracking.

The use of water in oil wells, fracking, etc is also well established.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2


It strikes me also that if we can make coke machines that dose umpteen sodas and fruit flavor dopants, that we could make gas pumps that allow a user to dial in their mix.


Excellent analogy!
 
There was a post a few pages back that stated the the EPA was requiring less ethanol. One has to be careful with that statement. The EPA is requiring less ethanol that was orginally required by the Renewable Fuels Standard (RFS). The RFS set targets for ethanol use in transportation fuels for many years into the future from when it originated in 2005. The issue became the so called blend wall - If all the fuel used in the US was an E10 blend, the amount of ethanol called for by the EPA was more than what was required for an E10 blend.

In response, the EPA lowered the amount of ethanol from what the previously required amounts were, but it is still more on a year over year basis. In other words, more ethanol use is required for transportation fuels next year than this, just not as much as was previously required. Odds of seeing less E10 use are thus very low.
 
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