Lubrication Myths-Lake Speed Jr.

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Interesting read. Not the first time I've heard real racers say 300 degrees is not too hot for modern oils.

Not too much baloney, either...
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Interesting read. Not the first time I've heard real racers say 300 degrees is not too hot for modern oils.

Not too much baloney, either...


Yeah I found the 300F comment interesting; I read a lot of comments where the 250F mark freaks people out.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Interesting read. Not the first time I've heard real racers say 300 degrees is not too hot for modern oils.

Not too much baloney, either...


The oil is probably fine at 300 degrees. It does not leave a lot of wiggle room for the the bearings, however.
 
The article just makes a blanket statement about "synthetic oil". It doesn't specify which kind of synthetic oil. Makes the layman reader think a hydrocracked mineral oil based synthetic like Super Tech or Mobil 1 will handle the same extremes and abuse of an ester based synthetic like Redline or Motul.

Is something like Super Tech synthetic tough enough to be used in a racing only application?
 
Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Interesting read. Not the first time I've heard real racers say 300 degrees is not too hot for modern oils.

Not too much baloney, either...


The oil is probably fine at 300 degrees. It does not leave a lot of wiggle room for the the bearings, however.

It's a confusing set of comments in the article. Can't tell if they're talking about spot temps or sump temps.

Yes, it's probably just fine for any good synthetic to be at 300º F. But a sump temperature of 300º F is a bit scary because, as you suggested, the oil will be even hotter in some parts of the engine.
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
The article just makes a blanket statement about "synthetic oil". It doesn't specify which kind of synthetic oil. Makes the layman reader think a hydrocracked mineral oil based synthetic like Super Tech or Mobil 1 will handle the same extremes and abuse of an ester based synthetic like Redline or Motul.


No agenda in that a priori-loaded question, huh?

If the HTHS at high temperature acts like a synthetic oil and not like a conventional, then his generic "synthetic" statement works just fine.

And, oh yeah, there's more to any Mobil 1 product content than Group III+. (Don't know much about Super Tech, so no comment there).
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
The article just makes a blanket statement about "synthetic oil". It doesn't specify which kind of synthetic oil. Makes the layman reader think a hydrocracked mineral oil based synthetic like Super Tech or Mobil 1 will handle the same extremes and abuse of an ester based synthetic like Redline or Motul.

Is something like Super Tech synthetic tough enough to be used in a racing only application?


I would throw Royal Purple in there with Redline and Motul...
 
According to this graph, not much difference between Synthetic or Conventional viscosity breakdown either...

Driven-Viscosity-Breakdown-chart.jpg
 
Agreed, not a bad article (could replace one or two others for sure).

wemay, given that 20 only goes down to 6.9cst, the chart takes on new meaning.

The mineral (no name brand) is really a 16, and the synthetic knocking on 16.
 
Dropping fully a grade or two IS a big deal.

It's not slipping across a line, but a pounce into the next state.

That being said, it could be the world's most marginal just in spec 5W30 that they found.
 
OK shannow,

This article is saying a few things we've been at odds over.

1. A synthetic of one lower grade can be run in lieu of a mineral oil.
2. Too much viscosity will resist drawing in to the hydrodynamic space of a tight clearances bearing.
 
I would say with a VII containing multi-grade conventional,
versus a non-VII containing synthetic, the grade could
be dropped, because the conventional will shear
more with use.

With a conventional mono-grade versus a conventional
VII containing multi-grade, the same conclusion could be achieved.

The proof would be 10W40 against a SAE 30.
The 10W40, well we know the legacy, first it would thin
out of grade, then thicken by Eastervacation.

The SAE 30 could go either way.
Thicken or thin out of grade with use.
 
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turtlevette,
as to 2, your premise was that the viscous oil sheared straight off the shaft, before you changed your tune to not getting drawn into the clearances...just saying, and also you never backed the statement with anything before you changed it to "cavitation" in that thread.

The article is an advertorial, not an engineering journal. There is a difference in how information is purveyed in the two fields. Of all people, you should know that.

A thicker oil will have lower side leakage, which will draw less oil from the galleries, which will make it run warmer...pure and simple. Have explained the process ad nauseum for a decade...go and have a look at the how bearings work thread, and follow the charts.

As to number 1, I don't recall us ever "debating that", except for your thinner lubricant that behaves like a thick lubricant in every aspect except viscosity...again which you've never backed with anything.

If you have a dino oil that is shear prone, and a synth that isn't, then of course over the course of an OCI you will have a difference.

If the bearing needs an HTHS of 3, a lubricant with an HTHS of 2.6, synthetic or dino is not going to help.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow


The article is an advertorial, not an engineering journal. There is a difference in how information is purveyed in the two fields. Of all people, you should know that.



Yep. Agreed.

The "shear" off the shaft argument would be under more extremely viscus conditions. Have you ever seen a drop of oil move around in a hot non stick pan? A lack or break in adhesion.

There is a post long ago from someone who sounded like a research engineer. He was talking about the reptiling effect of molecules right before boundary conditions that caused a synthetic to act like a higher grade.

Its not like no one agrees with me.

I wish you'd think outside the box a little more. That's how new things are invented.
 
turtlevette;
Do you know how hard it is to think outside the box?
First you have to "un-learn" everything, which is next to impossible.
Then you have to present your idea to the 60 inch stomach
and triple chin status quo.
I know what you are getting at, I can visualize it and it
makes sense.
But, I don't have the magic to make it true.
So...until it is proven to be true, it remains a dream.

And dreams are how new things are invented.
So dream on.
 
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