New Hustler - Owner's Manual Confusion

[tony1679]

My mom just bought a new Hustler mower. 23HP Kawasaki, 52" deck, $2999. Awesome rig. She has turned to me for care and advice. There are several oddities, but one stands out. It came with a Hustler manual that states to change oil at 40hrs. There was also a Kawasaki manual, which called for 100 hours. What gives?

It has a filter and 2.2qt sump...

Also, The mower accepts a range of oils from 5W-20 to SAE40 (with SL being the most recent spec

) . From what I understand SAE30/10W-30 is ideal. I'm not a fan of SAE30/40. I am using a full synthetic 5W-30 in my Briggs, and it is specifically labeled acceptable. Neither of the manuals mentions synthetics at all, much less any being acceptable. Is there any reason not to use a full synthetic 5W-30 here as well?

Last, what filters are good (and preferably cheaper) besides the Kawasaki. No junk filters, just looking for easier availability (Wix?). Cross-referencing this filter has been confusing so far. Thanks in advance!

 

[jrmason]

100 hours seems awfully long for a small engine/sump. Generally I would stick with the engine manufacturers recommendations but I would look into it a lite further before committing to that long of an interval.

Nothing wrong with using synthetic if that's your preference, Briggs & Strstten actually promote the use of it in their engines now. 5w30 would be the best choice with the viscosities they recommend.

Not sure if you can cross reference your filter to HiFlo or not but they make very good filters at a reasonable price. I buy them about 6 at a time off of EBay so I always have them on hand for all of our ATV's. HiFlo makes many OEM and aftermarket filters.

 

[tony1679]

Originally Posted By: jrmason
100 hours seems awfully long for a small engine/sump. Generally I would stick with the engine manufacturers recommendations but I would look into it a lite further before committing to that long of an interval.
My Briggs 12.5HP single cylinder calls for 50 hours with NO oil filter and a 1.5qt sump... Maybe 100 is extreme with conventional oils, but I would think a full syn would handle it...?

Thanks for the input.

 

[Lawn_Care]

My Kawasaki FR651V 21.5 hp engine on my Big Dog Z-turn (which is made by Hustler) calls for 100-hour OCI and 200-hour interval for Oil Filter, which is not uncommon for an engine like this with a spin-on oil filter. The mower's manual says to 'follow the engine manufacturer's recommendations'. lol

Maybe Hustler meant the first 40-hours. I know my Kawa manual says change oil after the first 10 hours, then every 100 hours after that.

These engines get used under some very heavy load conditions at times and rely on air cooling (which can get quite warm anyway), so I run a 5W-40 HDEO in them. Either Rotella T6 or DELO 5W-40 - whichever I can get cheaper at the time. No reason you couldn't use a 15W-40 in the summer heat though.

Run an HDEO in these year-around and that engine will last longer than the rest of the mower.

I would not try to second-guess Kawasaki's recommendations, and tens-of-thousands of people have had no trouble with their suggested 100-hour OCI. I have no problems with a 100-hour OCI, especially with an HDEO (and I tend to over-do everything). I do insist on changing the filter every 100-hours as well. They're not expensive, so why put clean oil in an engine with a dirty filter?

 

[jrmason]

Originally Posted By: tony1679
Originally Posted By: jrmason
100 hours seems awfully long for a small engine/sump. Generally I would stick with the engine manufacturers recommendations but I would look into it a lite further before committing to that long of an interval.
My Briggs 12.5HP single cylinder calls for 50 hours with NO oil filter and a 1.5qt sump... Maybe 100 is extreme with conventional oils, but I would think a full syn would handle it...?

Thanks for the input.


Service intervals do not change when choosing between conventional and synthetic. Synthetic has the potential to last longer than conventional but it has to be verified with UOA.

 

[Lawn_Care]

As far as Oil Filters, I created a thread a couple months ago and got several responses.
Here

Not sure what engine model your mower has, but i'd guess that it's a FR691V. If I knew for sure, it'd be easy to recommend a filter.

On my mower with the Kawasaki FR651V I ended up going with a Fram XG3614 (because I over-think these things), but the standard Fram 3614 would be fine with 100-hour OCI's (changed right along with the oil), and a whole lot cheaper than Kawasaki's filters.

 

[Eddie]

My B&S 20 HP twin specifies 50 hours for oil and filter. I run 10w30 PP and change once a year or 50 hours. I think this would be a good combo for your Kawasaki. Ed

 

[jrmason]

Originally Posted By: Lawn_Care
My Kawasaki FR651V 21.5 hp engine on my Big Dog Z-turn (which is made by Hustler) calls for 100-hour OCI and 200-hour interval for Oil Filter, which is not uncommon for an engine like this with a spin-on oil filter. The mower's manual says to 'follow the engine manufacturer's recommendations'. lol

Maybe Hustler meant the first 40-hours. I know my Kawa manual says change oil after the first 10 hours, then every 100 hours after that.

These engines get used under some very heavy load conditions at times and rely on air cooling (which can get quite warm anyway), so I run a 5w-40 HDEO in them. Either Rotella T6 or DELO 5w-40 - whichever I can get cheaper at the time. Run an HDEO in these year-around and that engine will last longer than the rest of the mower.

I would not try to second-guess Kawasaki's recommendations, and thousands of people have had no trouble with their suggested 100-hour OCI. I do insist on changing the filter every 100-hours as well. They're not expensive so why put clean oil in an engine with a dirty filter?




You say you wouldn't second guess Kawasaki's service intervals yet you cut their filter service interval in half lol. It's strange how far apart the service intervals are between Kaw and Hustler are.

 

[Lawn_Care]

Originally Posted By: jrmason
You say you wouldn't second guess Kawasaki's service intervals yet you cut their filter service interval in half lol. It's strange how far apart the service intervals are between Kaw and Hustler are.


Very true, quite a bit different between the 2 companies.

You're right, I just contradicted myself.

With that being said, I hate the idea of putting fresh oil into an engine with a used oil filter. With the vibrations present in Zero Turn mowers, the chance of tears or splits does increase. To me it's not worth taking a chance, especially for the small expense and little bit of extra time it takes to change the filter while performing the OCI.

In the end, the 100-hour OCI would be a great candidate for Oil Analysis. I might have to send a sample into Blackstone just for giggles.

 

[jrmason]

Originally Posted By: Lawn_Care
Originally Posted By: jrmason
You say you wouldn't second guess Kawasaki's service intervals yet you cut their filter service interval in half lol. It's strange how far apart the service intervals are between Kaw and Hustler are.


Very true, quite a bit different between the 2 companies.

You're right, I just contradicted myself.

With that being said, I hate the idea of putting fresh oil into an engine with a used oil filter. With the vibrations present in Zero Turn mowers, the chance of tears or splits does increase. To me it's not worth taking a chance, especially for the small expense and little bit of extra time it takes to change the filter while performing the OCI.

In the end, the 100-hour OCI would be a great candidate for Oil Analysis. I might have to send a sample into Blackstone just for giggles.


I agree with your assessment on the oil filter.

 

[racer12306]

I have a Kaw FS691. The manual says to change the oil at 8hrs, then every 100 hours after that and oil filter every 200 hours. Interesting note, it only says to change the oil at 8hrs, not the oil filter.

I'm assuming by the price that this Hustler has the FR series engines.
http://www.kawasakienginesusa.com/sites/...V_English_0.pdf

This maintenance schedule is practically identical to the FS.


My plan:
Change oil/filter at 5 hours with conventional 30WT, change oil/filter at 10 hours with synthetic 30WT, then change oil/filter annually/100 hours with synthetic 30WT.

Still debating if I can just go to 100 hours regardless of time while on synthetic.


If you have servicable hydros, dump that oil at 75 hours, then on the normal interval. (That is what my 3200 series pumps say to do)

 

[Lawn_Care]

You're right, Racer. They are very similar indeed.

Nothing wrong with your intended OCI schedule. Many homeowners don't go anywhere near 100-hours a year on these things. I'm using mine a lot more than the average homeowner, but for the price I gave it'll be just fine.

If I was just mowing my yard and the lot behind me, annual use would be less than 100-hours - in which case I would just change it every spring.

 

[mrsilv04]

I have 2 Kawasaki engines. A FD620D (20hp liquid cooled twin) and a FC540V (17hp air cooled single).

The FD620D has 2800 hours on it, and gets oil and filter every 100 hours.

The FC540V has 1300 hours on it, and gets oil and filter once a year (roughly equals every 50 hours).


Both get Rotella T 10w-30 and a $4 aftermarket oil filter (usually a Puro Classic or a Napa Silver).

Personally, I wouldn't run a liquid cooled engine past 100 hours, nor would I run an air cooled engine past 50 hours.

I pulled the valve covers off of the FD620D at 2020 hours to replace the gaskets. This is what I found.

The $12/gallon Rotella is doing a great job, and is working. I've found something that works great for me.

 

[oily boyd]

Nice mower - I have the 42" version.

I put on ~30 hours/year and just change oil before storage every year and then forget about it.

Use any good 10W-30. I use Kawasaki oil and filters just because my mower has another 1.5 years of warranty and don't want to get in any arguments about that in case I need that warranty.

I get the filters at home depot for ~ $10-12 each (!).

Don't forget to change that oil for the first time at 8 hours (?) or whatever the manual recommends.

Also, that factory filter will be on there tighter that you can imagine. I had to get an end cap wrench just for that reason.

My mower has 42 hours on it and doesn't use any oil. Also, uses about 1 gallon of fuel for every hour of mowing - I'm happy with that.

 

[slomo]

What puzzles me is people stretch mower OCI as far as humanly possible. WHY? We're talking about a whopping two quarts of oil here people. Not doing an oil service on a container ship. Why not change it at HALF the engine makers recommended interval? I don't get it.

Most people do yearly oil dumps. Man that six bucks really kills some I guess. They'd rather spend thousands on a new over priced 0-turn.

slomo

 

[Lawn_Care]

Originally Posted By: slomo
What puzzles me is people stretch mower OCI as far as humanly possible. WHY? We're talking about a whopping two quarts of oil here people. Not doing an oil service on a container ship. Why not change it at HALF the engine makers recommended interval? I don't get it.


On engines without an oil filter, I completely agree. I practice this myself on OPE and my scooters. With an oil filter and running an HDEO, I simply see no need to change oil at 1/2 the manufacturer's recommendation. Running for 100 hours on a Kawasaki v-twin engine is no problem with a stout HDEO. Dirt infiltration (and the subsequent wear it causes) through the meager air filtration will kill the engine long before a 100-hour OCI maintenance schedule will cause problems.

 

[PhilsSmallEngine]

Kawasaki has always used the change at 10 hours with filter out of box and then 100 hours for oil and 200 hours for oil+filter. This goes back nearly 30 years now. If you follow those guidelines, it will last. Even when neglected, their engines last quite a long time. Kawasaki has made only a handful of mistakes over the years (plastic cam gears... my grandfather has the first model) and even then, they're tough engines to wear down.

 

[tony1679]

Thanks for all the replies.

I called both Kawasaki and Hustler. I didn't expect the responses I got.

Kawasaki - This guy (clearly reading from a computer screen) said SM/SN is a no-no

There is not enough zinc, and is bad for the engine. Regarding synthetics, those are bad too, unless rated SF-SL. When I asked about viscosity, he said "you live in OK... No doubt I would go with 20W-50." I said "That's not even an approved viscosity in your manual. How about putting me through to someone who actually knows about oil." I said this as polite as I could. He said "You are speaking to him." So I then got a little smart with him. I said "so you are telling me to use an oil that is too thick, and that IS acceptable, but SM/SN regarding zinc is unacceptable? And an SF conventional SAE30/40 (from manual) would be approved, but a synthetic with a SN rating is bad?" Seriously? ... "Yes." I hung up.

Hustler - This guy actually had some knowledge of oil. He said Hustler recommends 40hrs to "protect our customers from unnecessary repairs, but as long as the Kawasaki maintenance plan was followed, there would be no issues." He said SN is perfectly acceptable, synthetic is a bonus. He said "these engines are filled with Mobil 10W-30 before/when they arrive at the dealer." Last, he said there are plenty of filters that are acceptable, and to use what I wish. "BUT, please make sure the bypass valve setting matches the OE setting."

Of course, I take both answers with a grain of salt. But I definitely did not expect a Hustler rep to know more than a Kawasaki rep regarding a Kawasaki engine.

To those that asked, yes, this is a FR691V. And I agree, oil filter WILL be changed every time. I will probably change the oil/filter yearly, which will be under 100 hours (probably ~75).

 

[Lawn_Care]

Originally Posted By: tony1679
To those that asked, yes, this is a FR691V. And I agree, oil filter WILL be changed every time. I will probably change the oil/filter yearly, which will be under 100 hours (probably ~75).


Surprising answer from Kawasaki rep, must be a new kid fresh off the street. lol

As far as Hustler, that's not surprising at all. They seem like good folks who actually somewhat care about their customers, has been my experience anyway.

Follow your yearly OCI plan (and filter) and that engine will outlast the mower itself.

 

[Lawn_Care]

Originally Posted By: PhilsSmallEngine
Kawasaki has always used the change at 10 hours with filter out of box and then 100 hours for oil and 200 hours for oil+filter. This goes back nearly 30 years now. If you follow those guidelines, it will last. Even when neglected, their engines last quite a long time. Kawasaki has made only a handful of mistakes over the years (plastic cam gears... my grandfather has the first model) and even then, they're tough engines to wear down.


Phil - i've got a 1988 John Deere 14SB - 21" Commercial mower with the venerable Kawasaki FC-150V engine. 27-years old and it still starts first pull and is a complete Beast of an engine for it's size. I have always used an HDEO in it, and it still runs like it did many moons ago.