City, Suburb or Rural living. Pros and Cons

[expat]

Thanks guys.
Some friends of ours worked close to each other in Vancouver BC.
When they first got together, they bought a small, single bedroom, condo downtown.

The condo worked well for them and they made money on the sale a few years later. However the new owners got hit hard when it became apparent the complex needed major repairs. Some owners who could not pay, were forced to walk away!

New jobs sent them to another city and they bought a townhouse walking/cycling distance from where they work.
Cost, about $500k, about the same as a three bed house on acreage 40 minutes out of town.
They do have a car, mostly used when travelling out of town. Mostly it sits outside their small garage (that's full of stored stuff)

NOW they have a two year old child, He travels overseas with work, or works from home. She has her job in the city, but the townhouse feels too small, daycare is expensive, and they don't go out as much anymore.

Still she wants to live and work in town.
They are considering a house on a city lot, $1m!!

 

[expat]

So, my real question is:

It costs a lot to live in the city, and you get (accommodation wise) less for your $.
Business's tend to pay higher wages, to off-set the higher cost of living or commuting. Property taxes (per sq ft) are also higher.
Other costs also tend to also be high.

Our friends say "they live in the city because that's where the work is"
True (or partly true, seeing as one of them works from home now)

But why is their place of work IN the City?

Office space is far more costly let alone wage premiums.

Yes, they do have a work pool, but that is only because that is where work IS. (You can chase that one around and around)

50 years ago we could put it down to ease of communication.
Surely that is not the case today.

The fear is, in western Canada, city real estate cost is an out of control bubble.

The question is, What is driving it?

Have we got (in 2015) beyond the need/advantage of living in a city?

 

[Nick1994]

I enjoy living in the big city. I like fast traffic and high speed limits. I don't like smaller towns where you have to go 25 mph to get across town.

I actually live in Mesa, AZ which is about a 25 mile drive to central Phoenix and I commute there. I like being close to any store I need to be, but I don't mind commuting long distances for work/school, it's just not a big deal to me. Traffic in Phoenix isn't that bad either. I prefer large grocery stores to small general stores. Phoenix is the simplest city in the country to get around. It ridiculous how simple and easy it is. There's lots of corporate jobs that small towns don't have there's probably at least 50-75 colleges to choose from too. Houses in Phoenix have yards and aren't too small like cookie cutter houses. What's more to ask for?

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: expat
So, my real question is:

It costs a lot to live in the city, and you get (accommodation wise) less for your $.
Business's tend to pay higher wages, to off-set the higher cost of living or commuting. Property taxes (per sq ft) are also higher.
Other costs also tend to also be high.

Our friends say "they live in the city because that's where the work is"
True (or partly true, seeing as one of them works from home now)

But why is their place of work IN the City?

Office space is far more costly let alone wage premiums.

Yes, they do have a work pool, but that is only because that is where work IS. (You can chase that one around and around)

50 years ago we could put it down to ease of communication.
Surely that is not the case today.

The fear is, in western Canada, city real estate cost is an out of control bubble.

The question is, What is driving it?

Have we got (in 2015) beyond the need/advantage of living in a city?


I'm in real estate and there's lots of reasons to live in the city. For one thing, it can sometimes be considered safer although people seem to think the cities are full of crime, however, lots more people die in car accidents than get killed in the city. Young people also like the city because there's lots more to do, there's more bars and other forms of entertainment that you don't get in the suburbs. It's considered more exciting and the suburbs more boring. Just depends on what stage of life you're at.

 

[xxch4osxx]

I cannot stand going to a city let alone think of living in one. I prefer rural living. I like having open spaces with no neighbors nosing into my business. I don't mind having to drive a bit to get to stores etc. Born and raised in the country, and I will die in the country!

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Just depends on what stage of life you're at.


I guess that's about it!

Other than that, my thoughts are:

Take London, my home city.

Like just about all cities, London was formed around a transport hub. In this case a Port in a river.
Goods were moved in, and out and it was a Centre of distribution.
Merchants established offices above their wearhouses, so it was also a centre of commerce.
Later (in my lifetime, in fact) urban development caused transportation difficulties, and realestate became too valuable for mere wearhousing and industry, the Blue collar jobs moved out of town.
Today London is a centre of commerce (and a very expensive place to live) simply because it IS.
Sustained by the money of the people that live there, because it 'is THE place to be'

Difficult to substantiate, this could change very quickly.
The bubble could burst!

 

[Silk]

I seem to have spent my life running away from an expanding Auckland city, in financial hindsight I should've embraced it and stayed there.

When I was born we lived in an isolated seaside community looking across the estuary at Auckland, we had to leave and lived in a small town for my father to get better work. We came to Auckland for work and housing before I started school and I spent the next 30 years there. All my childhood memories are from my grandmother's place at the beach, ultimately she had to move because of costs - now 3 mansions sit on her beachside property, and it is now considered an inner suburb of Auckland. My grandparents moved there because land was cheap and people didn't want to live so far away from the city.

With a young family my wife and I moved to an island community an hour by boat from Auckland - land was cheap and nobody wanted to live there. For various reasons we came back to Auckland 10 years later. Now Waiheke Island is apparently a paradise community, part of Auckland City and everyone wants to live there...the house we built for $67,000 is now worth a million.

We didn't intend to live in Auckland, but ended up another 10 years there, and moved to this town an hour from the city - property was cheap and no one wants to live here. But there has been no capital gain on my house in 10 years. An hour from the big city, half an hour from the next smaller one, close to other towns. Not a nice place, but handy. I prefer to live in a rural community.

Selling up cheap and running away while housing prices skyrocket seems to be a family trait.

 

[rjundi]

I live I guess in Suburb however really 10 mins from a really nice small city called Portsmouth NH. There is a nice mix of ocean, culture, incredible food choices/bars, kids sports,arts/culture and work oppurtunties.

For my kids sake living like this is very important. I abutt a nice neigbhorhood and let my 8 year old do a 2 mile loop on bike to friends and parents have little worry about anything here. All neighbors know each other.

I am happy in my situation and location and honestly don't understand why so many complaints about the government, taxes and future etc. Its great here!

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
I live I guess in Suburb however really 10 mins from a really nice small city called Portsmouth NH. There is a nice mix of ocean, culture, incredible food choices/bars, kids sports,arts/culture and work oppurtunties.

For my kids sake living like this is very important. I abutt a nice neigbhorhood and let my 8 year old do a 2 mile loop on bike to friends and parents have little worry about anything here. All neighbors know each other.

I am happy in my situation and location and honestly don't understand why so many complaints about the government, taxes and future etc. Its great here!


Familiarity breeds contempt? It is easy to forget about what it is like elsewhere, particularly if you haven't lived there.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: rjundi
I live I guess in Suburb however really 10 mins from a really nice small city called Portsmouth NH. There is a nice mix of ocean, culture, incredible food choices/bars, kids sports,arts/culture and work oppurtunties.

For my kids sake living like this is very important. I abutt a nice neigbhorhood and let my 8 year old do a 2 mile loop on bike to friends and parents have little worry about anything here. All neighbors know each other.

I am happy in my situation and location and honestly don't understand why so many complaints about the government, taxes and future etc. Its great here!


Familiarity breeds contempt? It is easy to forget about what it is like elsewhere, particularly if you haven't lived there.


I grew up abroad with parents having their vacation home in White Mountains NH. Abroad we lived in company housing etc in places that were awful in the summer desert heat. I did live a few cities in US (Boston, NYC, SF) post college however did have roots here in a purchased home at age 22 that was mostly rented out in my twenties.

 

[SeaJay]

My solution was to live close by the city in a modest house. The short commute allows us to work longish hours, and make enough money to buy a weekend home, about 100 miles away where it is much less crowded and down the block from a beach on a large salt water bay. Best of both worlds.

 

[Mr Nice]

Big cities usually have the better paying jobs. That's important if you are raising a family and need a good retirement plan.

Once retired you can live in a rural area since you are no longer in the rat race.

 

[bradepb]

We moved in to our subdivision 30 years ago and it was still somewhat rural. It has since exploded and I do not care for it, my wife still likes it, I am stuck here.
If it were up to me I would move to a much more rural area and have the same commute timewise(expressway)

Pros of where I live: It was a good place to raise kids, everything you could ever need is within a ten minute drive,even though I am 20 minutes from Detroit our area is very safe,it costs us very little to live here with no mortgage and low utilitys for our smallish home.

cons: Traffic,traffic,traffic. too many people and I love the woods. Oh, and did I mention the traffic is also bad.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Big cities usually have the better paying jobs. That's important if you are raising a family and need a good retirement plan.

Once retired you can live in a rural area since you are no longer in the rat race.


Sure there might be better paying work in a city however you can rest assured any extra money made is just as quickly spent since expences tend to be higher as well
So for example my ex owns her house. Paid 80k for it. 50kms out of Saskatoon in a smallish farming community that has a co-op and bar/hotel.
So her payments are 400 a month and makes 20 an hour never having to even commute towards the city.
1100 sq/ft condos are going for 200k,her job in the city pays 30 an hour.
But she actually has less folding cash monthly even though she makes more because expenses are significantly higher.
So it's relative. You might make more money in a city but you don't have any more money vs the small town.
I love rural living. No fences for my dog,no noise pollution,no creepy people,well strangers anyway.
I like the city for some things but it doesn't balance out for me.

 

[glock19]

Like many things in life, I prefer a a happy medium. We live on a densely wooded acre where you can't see the neighbors in a city of around 200,000. It provides space and privacy while still having the conveniences of city life. In other words, the ideal strategy for me was finding a large enough/private enough lot that I found acceptable, as close to the city as possible.

 

[MCompact]

I live on a small farm @25 minutes outside of Louisville, KY(I rent the tillable acreage to an adjoining landowner). I believe that if you can't take a leak in your front yard then your neighbors live too close.
It's perfect for me and my family. If I don't want to cut the grass more often than every 10-12 days I don'y have any annoying old coots asking me if my mower is broken. If my son and I want to watch a BD on the main HTS at 12:00 am at near Reference Level there's no one to complain. Ditto for working on one of the cars and leaving it on jack stands for a day or two. We have a "stealth" entrance so we almost never get any unwanted visitors.
I know my setup is not everyone's cup of tea, but it works for me...

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Big cities usually have the better paying jobs. That's important if you are raising a family and need a good retirement plan.

Once retired you can live in a rural area since you are no longer in the rat race.



Why do big cities have better paying jobs?

If I was to be setting up an office, let alone an wearhouse or manufacturing facility, WHY would I want to put it in a high rent area, AND pay my staff a premium?

 

[expat]

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/news/vancouver-house-prices/

What drives this?

And WHY?

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: expat
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/news/vancouver-house-prices/

What drives this?

And WHY?

Vancouver and Toronto prices are inflated due to speculation, and the Chinese getting money into a stable safe economy.
I agree with you though, I don't see how businesses in an expensive city can compete with a competitor in a cheaper location, but I guess for many businesses the big city location must help them.
We live in the sticks on 100 acres, but its only 10 minutes to a grocery store or the kids soccer game. Often though we don't go to town at all on a weekend, as I pick up whatever we need on the way home during the week.
I like having some property to fool around with too, I can go for a 20 minute rip on the dirt bike, then go for a swim in the pond with the kids, cut some trees down, go for a walk in the woods, fly a kite on the hill, go sit with the dogs under a tree and guard the herd in the pasture.
Anyways, probably we should socialize a bit more but living out in the country isn't a big barrier as there are lots of interesting people out here too.

 

[xxch4osxx]

"I like having some property to fool around with too, I can go for a 20 minute rip on the dirt bike, then go for a swim in the pond with the kids, cut some trees down, go for a walk in the woods, fly a kite on the hill, go sit with the dogs under a tree and guard the herd in the pasture.
Anyways, probably we should socialize a bit more but living out in the country isn't a big barrier as there are lots of interesting people out here too."

Gotta love it! I wouldn't have it any other way.