Possible Fram Ultra issue
- Thread starter Trav
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the fram ultra for this application does not have a bypass valve in or on the filter, it is located on the filter adapter itself already on the block.
do you mean the anti drain valve?
do you mean the anti drain valve?
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
This reminds me of the tick my jeep developed while using Mobil 1 filters. I assume it turned out to be the lifters.
A tick lasting as long as you say has to be mechanical and not filter related, but then again, it sure is ironic is started the next day..
Most of the ticking is gone within a few seconds but if you listen closely you can hear faint ticking sounds for a few minutes. Most people wouldn't even notice them after the first few seconds but i do.
I know that engine like i know the back of my hand inside and out. The slightest difference in sound, vibration or running is noticed right away.
The sound did start right after putting that filter on, so we will see.
Could be a coincidence about the filter. Weak ADBV usually only cause initial start up noises I believe. It almost sounds like an exhaust leak tick that eventually quiets when the leaky parts warm up enough to seal the exhaust leak. I have that on my 1996 Contour Zetec, the colder temp it is at start up the longer the exhaust tick. Just a suggestion
.
Whimsey
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
This reminds me of the tick my jeep developed while using Mobil 1 filters. I assume it turned out to be the lifters.
A tick lasting as long as you say has to be mechanical and not filter related, but then again, it sure is ironic is started the next day..
Most of the ticking is gone within a few seconds but if you listen closely you can hear faint ticking sounds for a few minutes. Most people wouldn't even notice them after the first few seconds but i do.
I know that engine like i know the back of my hand inside and out. The slightest difference in sound, vibration or running is noticed right away.
The sound did start right after putting that filter on, so we will see.
Could be a coincidence about the filter. Weak ADBV usually only cause initial start up noises I believe. It almost sounds like an exhaust leak tick that eventually quiets when the leaky parts warm up enough to seal the exhaust leak. I have that on my 1996 Contour Zetec, the colder temp it is at start up the longer the exhaust tick. Just a suggestion
Whimsey
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
I would normally suspect a difference in the bypass valves but that doesn't apply here. Interesting.
Crazyoildude didn't put you up to this did he?
I would normally suspect a difference in the bypass valves but that doesn't apply here. Interesting.
Crazyoildude didn't put you up to this did he?
Originally Posted By: Trav
I installed one of these 1K ago in my GM 3800 gen II. This engine is spotless inside and i used the same PU 5w30 like always with no OTC additives.
The next day it developed a tick when cold, this engine has never had a tick since i got it 8 years ago.
Over the course of 1K its getting worse when cold, not instead of a few seconds its going on for a couple of minutes.
I will swap it today for a NAPA Gold (what it always had) and report back. I'm very concerned there may be flow issues with these filters.
Yes, it will be good to know what happens after you change the filter to the NAPA Gold. As far as flow goes, the FRAM Ultra filters are supposed to be just fine in that area. Maybe the Ultra filter doesn't work well with your application, who knows? Anyway, it will be good to know what you find out when you report back.
I installed one of these 1K ago in my GM 3800 gen II. This engine is spotless inside and i used the same PU 5w30 like always with no OTC additives.
The next day it developed a tick when cold, this engine has never had a tick since i got it 8 years ago.
Over the course of 1K its getting worse when cold, not instead of a few seconds its going on for a couple of minutes.
I will swap it today for a NAPA Gold (what it always had) and report back. I'm very concerned there may be flow issues with these filters.
Yes, it will be good to know what happens after you change the filter to the NAPA Gold. As far as flow goes, the FRAM Ultra filters are supposed to be just fine in that area. Maybe the Ultra filter doesn't work well with your application, who knows? Anyway, it will be good to know what you find out when you report back.
Originally Posted By: Whimsey
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
This reminds me of the tick my jeep developed while using Mobil 1 filters. I assume it turned out to be the lifters.
A tick lasting as long as you say has to be mechanical and not filter related, but then again, it sure is ironic is started the next day..
Most of the ticking is gone within a few seconds but if you listen closely you can hear faint ticking sounds for a few minutes. Most people wouldn't even notice them after the first few seconds but i do.
I know that engine like i know the back of my hand inside and out. The slightest difference in sound, vibration or running is noticed right away.
The sound did start right after putting that filter on, so we will see.
Could be a coincidence about the filter. Weak ADBV usually only cause initial start up noises I believe. It almost sounds like an exhaust leak tick that eventually quiets when the leaky parts warm up enough to seal the exhaust leak. I have that on my 1996 Contour Zetec, the colder temp it is at start up the longer the exhaust tick. Just a suggestion
.
Whimsey
This is my own car, there is no exhaust manifold leak, i would know that in a minute but yes your right it can give a similar sound. The noise is 100% lifter noise.
New filter is on so tomorrow AM i will know.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
This reminds me of the tick my jeep developed while using Mobil 1 filters. I assume it turned out to be the lifters.
A tick lasting as long as you say has to be mechanical and not filter related, but then again, it sure is ironic is started the next day..
Most of the ticking is gone within a few seconds but if you listen closely you can hear faint ticking sounds for a few minutes. Most people wouldn't even notice them after the first few seconds but i do.
I know that engine like i know the back of my hand inside and out. The slightest difference in sound, vibration or running is noticed right away.
The sound did start right after putting that filter on, so we will see.
Could be a coincidence about the filter. Weak ADBV usually only cause initial start up noises I believe. It almost sounds like an exhaust leak tick that eventually quiets when the leaky parts warm up enough to seal the exhaust leak. I have that on my 1996 Contour Zetec, the colder temp it is at start up the longer the exhaust tick. Just a suggestion
Whimsey
This is my own car, there is no exhaust manifold leak, i would know that in a minute but yes your right it can give a similar sound. The noise is 100% lifter noise.
New filter is on so tomorrow AM i will know.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Over the course of 1K its getting worse when cold, not instead of a few seconds its going on for a couple of minutes. I will swap it today for a NAPA Gold (what it always had) and report back. I'm very concerned there may be flow issues with these filters.
That's strange for sure. You're obviously more than mechanically inclined enough to know that a couple minutes of ticking is way, way too long for a faulty ADBV. I'd love to hear if it resolves and if you get anywhere with Fram.
Over the course of 1K its getting worse when cold, not instead of a few seconds its going on for a couple of minutes. I will swap it today for a NAPA Gold (what it always had) and report back. I'm very concerned there may be flow issues with these filters.
That's strange for sure. You're obviously more than mechanically inclined enough to know that a couple minutes of ticking is way, way too long for a faulty ADBV. I'd love to hear if it resolves and if you get anywhere with Fram.
I'm always interested how people will change their oil and filter, get a noise, and the oil is never suspect.
I'm confused by the science. The bypass is going to let in as much oil as the engine needs at startup.
I'm confused by the science. The bypass is going to let in as much oil as the engine needs at startup.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
I'm always interested how people will change their oil and filter, get a noise, and the oil is never suspect.
I'm confused by the science. The bypass is going to let in as much oil as the engine needs at startup.
On this forum it's the filter, on the main forum it's the oil to blame. But seriously, changing an oil filter has made many of these type issues disappear for whatever reason.
I'm always interested how people will change their oil and filter, get a noise, and the oil is never suspect.
I'm confused by the science. The bypass is going to let in as much oil as the engine needs at startup.
On this forum it's the filter, on the main forum it's the oil to blame. But seriously, changing an oil filter has made many of these type issues disappear for whatever reason.
I started it after 10 hrs, engine stone cold and its quiet as it always was. No noise of any kind. I have to wonder whats going on with that filter.
I will check it again in the AM but i can tell it fine. Notice the holes in the top plate. I didn't check the diameter of the holes so the total area may be the same but i don't think so, i will check it later.
Next OC i will try a Platinum, it supposedly flows even better than the Gold even though both are rated 9 to 11 gpm.
I will check it again in the AM but i can tell it fine. Notice the holes in the top plate. I didn't check the diameter of the holes so the total area may be the same but i don't think so, i will check it later.
Next OC i will try a Platinum, it supposedly flows even better than the Gold even though both are rated 9 to 11 gpm.
Have had what sounded the same but I used same oil & filter as always. Next oil & filter change ticking went away although it was again same oil & filter as always. Maybe sometimes a bad one gets in.
MotorKing should appear and resolve it. Both filters have no bypass so they are equal in that. Maybe your particular block bypass valve likes the pressure drop in the wix better than the fram. It could be the fram is right at the limit where the block bypass kicks open when cold. But the engine should run fine in all bypass mode, right? Quite a mystery. I don't think you are going to find the holes an issue because even with no holes the bypass should take care of oil flow? But I am batting pretty good in the being dept, so hope you find out. I did have a Maxima with block bypass and it did not like Nippon filters, lots of ticking before it settled down. What is the situation when the bypass valve is not working at all? I know they sell them all over, so they can't last forever. Maybe then it can be the holes and the flows fault. Everything was so Kumbayah with the Fram Ultra too.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
I'm always interested how people will change their oil and filter, get a noise, and the oil is never suspect.
I'm confused by the science. The bypass is going to let in as much oil as the engine needs at startup.
Anther engine is running fine with no noise with this oil from the same case, this engine has used this brand and viscosity of oil since it became available the only difference is the brand of filter.
Why should i suspect the oil?
I'm always interested how people will change their oil and filter, get a noise, and the oil is never suspect.
I'm confused by the science. The bypass is going to let in as much oil as the engine needs at startup.
Anther engine is running fine with no noise with this oil from the same case, this engine has used this brand and viscosity of oil since it became available the only difference is the brand of filter.
Why should i suspect the oil?
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
MotorKing should appear and resolve it. Both filters have no bypass so they are equal in that. Maybe your particular block bypass valve likes the pressure drop in the wix better than the fram. It could be the fram is right at the limit where the block bypass kicks open when cold. But the engine should run fine in all bypass mode, right? Quite a mystery. I don't think you are going to find the holes an issue because even with no holes the bypass should take care of oil flow? But I am batting pretty good in the being dept, so hope you find out. I did have a Maxima with block bypass and it did not like Nippon filters, lots of ticking before it settled down. What is the situation when the bypass valve is not working at all? I know they sell them all over, so they can't last forever. Maybe then it can be the holes and the flows fault. Everything was so Kumbayah with the Fram Ultra too.
Not knocking Fram Ultra at all, this is happening on this particular engine and i would like to find out why. Is it simply a bad bypass on this one, a defect? I cant say as i never tried one before on this engine.
I might try another one on it just for experimentation sake at the end of the season just to see if it does the same thing.
I do know on the LS6 there is no noise at all with the Fram. No answers or accusations of poor quality, just legit questions.
MotorKing should appear and resolve it. Both filters have no bypass so they are equal in that. Maybe your particular block bypass valve likes the pressure drop in the wix better than the fram. It could be the fram is right at the limit where the block bypass kicks open when cold. But the engine should run fine in all bypass mode, right? Quite a mystery. I don't think you are going to find the holes an issue because even with no holes the bypass should take care of oil flow? But I am batting pretty good in the being dept, so hope you find out. I did have a Maxima with block bypass and it did not like Nippon filters, lots of ticking before it settled down. What is the situation when the bypass valve is not working at all? I know they sell them all over, so they can't last forever. Maybe then it can be the holes and the flows fault. Everything was so Kumbayah with the Fram Ultra too.
Not knocking Fram Ultra at all, this is happening on this particular engine and i would like to find out why. Is it simply a bad bypass on this one, a defect? I cant say as i never tried one before on this engine.
I might try another one on it just for experimentation sake at the end of the season just to see if it does the same thing.
I do know on the LS6 there is no noise at all with the Fram. No answers or accusations of poor quality, just legit questions.
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I only read the opening post.
Put a Fram Ultra on a GM 5.7. Tick at start. I couldn't believe my ears. Two days later, I put a WIX on. Tick gone. Shame on me.
Put a Fram Ultra on a GM 5.7. Tick at start. I couldn't believe my ears. Two days later, I put a WIX on. Tick gone. Shame on me.
Interesting topic .. I had a similar issue but sort of in reverse. This past winter I had my usual M1 5w30 and a Nissan factory oil filter on my 2012 Nissan Pathfinder 4.0 V6. When the temp went down below zero I noticed quite a screech ar squeal on start up and just figured it was normal for the cold weather. Then I changed the oil and installed a Fram Ultra with my usual M1 5w30 and no more noise! And the weather got even colder then before.
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Originally Posted By: Lubener
For a filter to be as efficient as the Ultra, some flow ability has to be compromised. I would have Fram check out that filter if the replacement works better.
Wrong. Synthetic fiber oil filters like Ultra actually flow better or right at spec. Smaller diameter fibers and better consistency than cellulose paper oil filters.
I don't buy it. The smaller pores in the media will trap more smaller particles but will resist flow more. Until I see some scientific proof, I am not drinking the kool aid.
Originally Posted By: Lubener
For a filter to be as efficient as the Ultra, some flow ability has to be compromised. I would have Fram check out that filter if the replacement works better.
Wrong. Synthetic fiber oil filters like Ultra actually flow better or right at spec. Smaller diameter fibers and better consistency than cellulose paper oil filters.
I don't buy it. The smaller pores in the media will trap more smaller particles but will resist flow more. Until I see some scientific proof, I am not drinking the kool aid.
Troubling. What if Trav's engine didn't have hydraulic lifters? Would there have been any signs of something amiss? Would there have been any resulting damage? Maybe, despite claims to the contrary, you can't have great filtration and great flow at the same time.
This is how false rumors get started. There are a lot of them around here. One situation is deemed proof of something. The FU isn't a bypass filter, it's efficiency isn't like that at all. But suddenly it's efficiency, which is about the same as many other top tier filters, means the pores are too small blah blah blah everyone is drinking kool aid. I put my first Ultra on recently and haven't noticed a thing wrong, but all my filters are bypass valve in the filter.
Like I said before, the bypass valve in the oil circuit should prevent any oil flow problems, regardless what the filter is doing. That's what the bypass is for. If that's wrong, let's hear why.
Like I said before, the bypass valve in the oil circuit should prevent any oil flow problems, regardless what the filter is doing. That's what the bypass is for. If that's wrong, let's hear why.
Originally Posted By: Lubener
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Originally Posted By: Lubener
For a filter to be as efficient as the Ultra, some flow ability has to be compromised. I would have Fram check out that filter if the replacement works better.
Wrong. Synthetic fiber oil filters like Ultra actually flow better or right at spec. Smaller diameter fibers and better consistency than cellulose paper oil filters.
I don't buy it. The smaller pores in the media will trap more smaller particles but will resist flow more. Until I see some scientific proof, I am not drinking the kool aid.
No, the synthetic fibers are also much thinner, creating less resistance to flow than the thicker cellulose fibers. So you get better filtration and better flow all at the same time.
No Koolaid, just science.
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Originally Posted By: Lubener
For a filter to be as efficient as the Ultra, some flow ability has to be compromised. I would have Fram check out that filter if the replacement works better.
Wrong. Synthetic fiber oil filters like Ultra actually flow better or right at spec. Smaller diameter fibers and better consistency than cellulose paper oil filters.
I don't buy it. The smaller pores in the media will trap more smaller particles but will resist flow more. Until I see some scientific proof, I am not drinking the kool aid.
No, the synthetic fibers are also much thinner, creating less resistance to flow than the thicker cellulose fibers. So you get better filtration and better flow all at the same time.
No Koolaid, just science.
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