2009 Toyota Sienna, RLI 0W20, 13,356miles

[Jon]

Code:


OIL RLI 0W20

MILES IN USE 13,356

MILES 79,841

SAMPLE TAKEN 17 June 2015



ALUMINUM 9

CHROMIUM 1

IRON 87

COPPER 4

LEAD 1

TIN
NICKEL 3

SILVER
TITANIUM


SILICON 20

SODIUM 312

POTASSIUM 1



MOLYBDENUM 2

BORON
CALCIUM 2122

MAGNESIUM 15

PHOSPHORUS 737

ZINC 851

BARIUM


WATER 0

cSt @ 100C 8.3

PQ Index 15




Vehicle is 80% short trips (less than 5 miles), 15% mid-range trips (up to 20 miles), and occasional (rare) longer trips and in all sorts of weather (from -20F to 100F).

Iron and Sodium seem high to me. Thoughts?

 

[NHGUY]

87 iron? Wow.

 

[btanchors]

I am not familiar with RLI's additive package, but Sodium may be a part of it. The fact that there is practically no potassium suggests it's not coolant.

Iron IS high though, even for the miles.

 

[Garak]

Iron is high, but this is just one data point, and your usage pattern is difficult. As for the sodium, we'll need someone to let us know what the RLI additive package is supposed to look like.

 

[ExMachina]

Toyota's engines tend to have low iron. This one is around 5 times what it should be. Change oils and try again.

What a second, I though RedLine is suppose to have high moly. RLI 0w-20 used to have around 1100 ppm moly or so !!! This one has almost none. Something is wrong. Wrong sample? Mixed up at the lab? Bad lab spectro run?

 

[Jon]

RLI = Renewable Lubricants, Inc. (not RedLine)

 

[addyguy]

For a Toyota, those are awful results...Toyota's usually show very, very low wear.

I like what RLI 'stands for', but its results are pretty scattered...some look great, some look bad.

I'm not going to get into a brand war, but I am going to say this: Toyota engines almost always show good results on M1 oils. AFE 0W-20 would almost certainly do better here.

 

[901Memphis]

Sodium that high without the presence of potassium is most certainly from an additive and not coolant, however the iron does seem high for a Toyota engine. If it were a GM engine with 13k on the oil it would be almost normal.

 

[Rob_Roy]

Interesting that iron is elevated but the other wear metals are not. First run with this product? I am curious to see a second run to see if things settle down.

 

[Jon]

It is the first run, if I recall.
If I recall, the previous run was of BG semi-synthetic 5W-30 which is what my local shop defaults to.

I found it interesting the the other wear metals (chromium, lead, etc. in particular) seemed low to me.

I'll note that this vehicle was in the a VVTi recall at around 60K miles.
I may post the transmission fluid analysis (OEM fluid), it was terrible.

To be honest, I've had more recalls and more trouble with this vehicle than my much older (2003) KIA Sedona. I feel like I would have been happier with a Honda.

 

[Garak]

Exactly, we have nothing else. One data point certainly isn't a trend and jumping around from brand to brand will help nothing.

 

[Nate1979]

No TBN data on an extended drain. No way to conclude much.

 

[Pontual]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
For a Toyota, those are awful results...Toyota's usually show very, very low wear.

I like what RLI 'stands for', but its results are pretty scattered...some look great, some look bad.

I'm not going to get into a brand war, but I am going to say this: Toyota engines almost always show good results on M1 oils. AFE 0W-20 would almost certainly do better here.


Definitly.

 

[simple_gifts]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
No TBN data on an extended drain. No way to conclude much.


+1; Considering a short tripper @ 13.5K miles I think it did pretty well.

 

[CT8]

Short runs and cold winters?

 

[Jon]

Yes, the *average* trip for this at least 1/2 of the year is less than 2 miles (twice a day), with longer trips in decreasing frequency. We did do a long road trip with this, covering 3,000 miles in 12 days. I would say that this vehicle gets driven like a lot of minivans do - multiple short trips, city traffic, with the A/C on if it's hot and often at least 1/2 full of people and stuff.

Is the aluminum high for this duration?

It's got a mixture of 4x quarts of RLI 5W20 and 2x quarts of RLI 0W20, because that's what I had on hand.

Perhaps we'll see what this looks like on a second RLI O/C in a years' time!

Is anybody interested in some transmission UOA's I have? I have one for this (terrible results on the OEM fluid) and one for my KIA Sedona, I think.

 

[Jon]

I just found this:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2065149/1/Why_iron_ppm_numbers_are_NOT_g

and after reading it, the PQ Index of 15 vs. the iron at 87 tells me that it's from corrosion (perhaps due to an extended interval) and not wear.

I've not seen anybody else comment on the PQ Index yet.
What are your thoughts here?

 

[Greasymechtech]

Any oil consumption?

TBN?

Doesn't this minivan originally require a 5w30 with a 6 month or 5k, whichever is 1st, interval?

Why a 20 grade? why 13k miles, especially severe service?

What lab?

 

[Jon]

No oil consumption. No TBN reported in the analysis, the analysis was through a local Cenex Co-Op.

The minivan does originally require a 5W30 but I can't be sure of the interval. Toyota did back-spec this to 5W20 and 0W20.

For why 13K miles, because that makes it about 1 year in service.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Jon
What are your thoughts here?

Pay special attention to this post.