How much extra would you pay for 100% gas?

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Trav
Engine Manufacturers Have Issued Warnings About Gasoline With Ethanol Alcohol - E10 E15 fuel types...
Agco - Artic Cat - Ariens - Billy Goat - BMW - Bombardier - Briggs and Stratton - Caterpillar - Daimler Chrysler - Dodge - Ducati - Echo - Evinrude - Ferrari - Ford - General Motors - Harley Davidson - Homelite - Honda Acura - Hyundai - Isuzu - Jaguar - John Deere - Kia - Land Rover - Lawn Boy - Mazda - Mercedes-Benz - Mercruiser - Mercury - Mitsubishi - Murray - Nissan Infiniti - OMC - Pleasurecraft - Polaris - Porsche - Poulan - Rolls Royce - Saab - Sears - Snapper - Subaru - Suzuki - Tecumseh - Toro - Toyota - Volkswagen Audi - Volvo

http://www.fuel-testers.com/manufacturer_fuel_recommendations_ethanol_e10.html


Well yeah, OK sure. So says the site that sells test kits for alcohol. But you notice that it is primarily warnings for marine equipment, and a warning about E15 and above for other machinery. And how do we know how long ago some of those warnings were published? For example, I downloaded the user guide for the Ariens EZR Zero Turn mower just now and there are no warnings, no cautions, no nothing listed about E10 whatsoever. So is this for an older model or is it made up? Who knows?

I'm no fan of the use of alcohol in fuel (there is no economically justifiable reason to use it, nor is there an environmental one either) but using a website that sells test kits as proof is a little sensational.


I was talking mostly about marine engines and really what if the warning are older, i guess no one own a older piece of lawn equipment?
The site information about it turning acidic is correct, thats important, the rest of it may well be fluff.

 

[thankful4engines]

Originally Posted By: Rand

The current price is about 3.90/gal and local regular 10% ethanol gas is 2.70$

If it was only hydrogen and carbon of various molecules I would buy it for the same price as regular gas. It would have to be extremely high quality, two grades available 87 and more than 95 octane, and I want a sign that says whether it is a summer or winter blend (if there would be a difference in our Utopian fuel). It would probably just be to play around though. The whole conversation is kind of funny because somehow gasoline with XX% MTBE is still gas but with 10% ethanol and all of the sudden it isn't gas anymore.

How about labeling gas MTBEXX instead of E0? We can't tell the people too much info, easier to demonize something natural that works as good as our frankenmolecule in most cases.

Its all about tuning, compression ratios, stroke length etc. It goes beyond btu/mile, engines aren't that straight forward.

I can't understand why we don't have blender pumps mandated. I believe in ethanol of course but I also believe in consumer choice much more than that. I want to buy MTBE10

for a fuel injected engine I have that runs about 10% longer without ethanol. I want reliable E30 for my car, maybe I can save a little money.

 

[philipp10]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Trav
Engine Manufacturers Have Issued Warnings About Gasoline With Ethanol Alcohol - E10 E15 fuel types...
Agco - Artic Cat - Ariens - Billy Goat - BMW - Bombardier - Briggs and Stratton - Caterpillar - Daimler Chrysler - Dodge - Ducati - Echo - Evinrude - Ferrari - Ford - General Motors - Harley Davidson - Homelite - Honda Acura - Hyundai - Isuzu - Jaguar - John Deere - Kia - Land Rover - Lawn Boy - Mazda - Mercedes-Benz - Mercruiser - Mercury - Mitsubishi - Murray - Nissan Infiniti - OMC - Pleasurecraft - Polaris - Porsche - Poulan - Rolls Royce - Saab - Sears - Snapper - Subaru - Suzuki - Tecumseh - Toro - Toyota - Volkswagen Audi - Volvo

http://www.fuel-testers.com/manufacturer_fuel_recommendations_ethanol_e10.html


Well yeah, OK sure. So says the site that sells test kits for alcohol. But you notice that it is primarily warnings for marine equipment, and a warning about E15 and above for other machinery. And how do we know how long ago some of those warnings were published? For example, I downloaded the user guide for the Ariens EZR Zero Turn mower just now and there are no warnings, no cautions, no nothing listed about E10 whatsoever. So is this for an older model or is it made up? Who knows?

I'm no fan of the use of alcohol in fuel (there is no economically justifiable reason to use it, nor is there an environmental one either) but using a website that sells test kits as proof is a little sensational.


I was talking mostly about marine engines and really what if the warning are older, i guess no one own a older piece of lawn equipment?
The site information about it turning acidic is correct, thats important, the rest of it may well be fluff.


I agree that ethanol is no good in certain engines (marine, small engine, older engines etc) but for the vast majority of cars out there, it does not appear to be an issue. If it was, we would see cars on the side of the road all the time yet the opposite has happened since ethanol has been introduced. Cars are more reliable than ever. I am an old guy and I remember when seeing a breakdown was a regular occurrence. Now days, not so much.

 

[blueglide88]

I do a few motorcycle trips around the country every year. I currently live in Illinois where we have 10% ethanol. When I travel I look for pure gas using the app. I consistently get 3-5 mpg better gas mileage with the pure gas over the 10% [censored]. This has been my observation over the years and hundreds of thousands of miles ridden, not just a few tanks and a guestimate. I consider less gas mileage from E10 to be a problem.

 

[philipp10]

Originally Posted By: blueglide88
I do a few motorcycle trips around the country every year. I currently live in Illinois where we have 10% ethanol. When I travel I look for pure gas using the app. I consistently get 3-5 mpg better gas mileage with the pure gas over the 10% [censored]. This has been my observation over the years and hundreds of thousands of miles ridden, not just a few tanks and a guestimate. I consider less gas mileage from E10 to be a problem.


It's well known that 10% ethanol gas has less energy density (3.4%) to be exact. The price reflects that.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: philipp10
It's well known that 10% ethanol gas has less energy density (3.4%) to be exact. The price reflects that.


Are you saying that the pricing of E10 is due to energy content?

 

[philipp10]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: philipp10
It's well known that 10% ethanol gas has less energy density (3.4%) to be exact. The price reflects that.


Are you saying that the pricing of E10 is due to energy content?


ah yes, somewhat along with the sheer volume of 10% ethanol gas as opposed to E0.

 

[HangFire]

I use only E0 in all my 2-stroke engines and smaller 4-strokes. In my 27HP lawn tractor I use E10 in Summer and store it with E0 in the late Fall.

I had to replace two 4-stroke carbs, a Briggs and a Tecumseh, because they were stored a few months with E10, and it phase separated and water in the bottom of the float bowl clogged the pickup. Both were so corroded I couldn't rebuild them. This with "fresh gas" E10 + Stabil. In decades of running lawnmowers, I NEVER had problems like that before E10.

I put E0 in my truck every other fillup because it sits a lot. This has absolutely cured the poor startup and warmup issues that plagued me for years when it became a low-use vehicle.

For my other cars, I use E10 because they get used often and don't have a chance to phase separate.

 

[thankful4engines]

Originally Posted By: HangFire

I had to replace two 4-stroke carbs, a Briggs and a Tecumseh, because they were stored a few months with E10, and it phase separated and water in the bottom of the float bowl clogged the pickup. Both were so corroded I couldn't rebuild them. This with "fresh gas" E10 + Stabil. In decades of running lawnmowers, I NEVER had problems like that before E10.


Did the gas tanks dry out?

 

[thankful4engines]

Originally Posted By: blueglide88
I do a few motorcycle trips around the country every year. I currently live in Illinois where we have 10% ethanol. When I travel I look for pure gas using the app. I consistently get 3-5 mpg better gas mileage with the pure gas over the 10% [censored]. This has been my observation over the years and hundreds of thousands of miles ridden, not just a few tanks and a guestimate. I consider less gas mileage from E10 to be a problem.


Just curious...

Do you know your bikes compression ratio? Also, what RPM are you usually running?

Thanks

 

[JustinH]

No need for e0 gas in any of my applications.

When I lived in NY, lawn equipment would sit idle for 6 months out of the year. Never had a problem and I usually did nothing to winterize the carb.

Here in Texas the non mowing season is maybe 3-4 months, so the equipment sits idle. I have started adding stabil to the equipment and running it through the system before leaving the equipment in the garage but I've never had a problem either.

I run e10 exxon gas because it is right near my house. 87 octane.

The gas mileage on both my cars is good enough. Paying more for gas is going to be a wash for MPG.

Its getting really interesting around here with the e85.

There is about a 60 cent spread on e85 versus e10, so if I had a flex fuel car, I would buy the corn juice.

Earlier in the year the spread was only 20 cents, which makes it not worth it.

I think that the US will go to e15 in the future, and all the cars will be tuned for it.

 

[blueglide88]

Originally Posted By: thankful4engines
Originally Posted By: blueglide88
I do a few motorcycle trips around the country every year. I currently live in Illinois where we have 10% ethanol. When I travel I look for pure gas using the app. I consistently get 3-5 mpg better gas mileage with the pure gas over the 10% [censored]. This has been my observation over the years and hundreds of thousands of miles ridden, not just a few tanks and a guestimate. I consider less gas mileage from E10 to be a problem.


Just curious...

Do you know your bikes compression ratio? Also, what RPM are you usually running?

Thanks

MY 2011 Road King has a 9.2 ratio and is fuel injected.
My 1988 FLHS has 8.5 ratio and has a carb.
I am cruising at approx. 3000 rpm at 65-70 mph.
Why did you ask?

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: thankful4engines
Originally Posted By: HangFire

I had to replace two 4-stroke carbs, a Briggs and a Tecumseh, because they were stored a few months with E10, and it phase separated and water in the bottom of the float bowl clogged the pickup. Both were so corroded I couldn't rebuild them. This with "fresh gas" E10 + Stabil. In decades of running lawnmowers, I NEVER had problems like that before E10.


Did the gas tanks dry out?


No, they only sat for a few months, but I could see the water in the bottom of the floatbowl when I dropped it, and the corrosion on the pickup.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I wouldn't pay any extra for E0. I've been using E10 in everything for decades. I've never had a carburetor related issue on anything I've owned (though I will say that I've fixed many others). I keep Sta-bil in everything, I store everything over the winter wet, and everything runs like a top.

I've lately (last few seasons) started using Trufuel in my Echo 2-strokes, but only because it burns cleaner than anything else I've used. I previously ran E10 in it with the 2-stroke oil mix and everything ran for years.

 

[WobblyElvis]

The way I understand it, E10 has about %2 less energy and I have never had a problem with it. I'd pay %2 more for ethanol free.

 

[Willscary]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I wouldn't pay any extra for E0. I've been using E10 in everything for decades. I've never had a carburetor related issue on anything I've owned (though I will say that I've fixed many others). I keep Sta-bil in everything, I store everything over the winter wet, and everything runs like a top.

I've lately (last few seasons) started using Trufuel in my Echo 2-strokes, but only because it burns cleaner than anything else I've used. I previously ran E10 in it with the 2-stroke oil mix and everything ran for years.


You won't pay a few cents more for full gasoline at the pump but you are willing to pay outrageous amounts of money per gallon for small amounts of Trufuel, which is full gasoline in a small container (or full gas mixed with 2-stroke oil in a small container)?